General Wrestling Thread

[pudge]

In 2000, the WWF didn't refer to them as foreign objects though that was their name.

You might as be interested to know that announcers in the WWF have a set of rules on terminology. Some of these include never, ever using pronouns. So instead of saying "Daniel Bryan really nailed Triple H's face with that one! He's really going to work on him", they will be forced to say "Daniel Bryan really nailed Triple H's face with that one! Daniel Bryan's really going to work on Triple H's face".

Also, they may not refer to a championship as an object. It is never a "belt" nor is it a "title" or a "strap" or "the gold". It is always the WWE Heavyweight Championship. So instead of Cole saying, "And now Daniel Bryan hits Randy Orton in the face. He's going to win the belt!", he has to say "And now Daniel Bryan hits Randy Orton in the face. He's going to win the WWE Championship".

They also may not shorten names. You can use "Bryan" for "Daniel Bryan" and "Orton" for "Randy Orton" but you aren't allowed to use "Taker" for "Undertaker" or "Punk" for CM Punk"

Obviously they have "Superstars and Divas" rather than "wresters and women's wrestlers". They are a Sports Entertainment company rather than a pro-wrestling or wrestling company, though now they use Live Entertainment. Oh and they have "members of the WWE Universe" rather than "fans"

I'm not sure what it is but I'm starting to think you like Bryan..

 

[peoffrey]

In 2000, the WWF didn't refer to them as foreign objects though that was their name.

You might as be interested to know that announcers in the WWF have a set of rules on terminology. Some of these include never, ever using pronouns. So instead of saying "Daniel Bryan really nailed Triple H's face with that one! He's really going to work on him", they will be forced to say "Daniel Bryan really nailed Triple H's face with that one! Daniel Bryan's really going to work on Triple H's face".

Also, they may not refer to a championship as an object. It is never a "belt" nor is it a "title" or a "strap" or "the gold". It is always the WWE Heavyweight Championship. So instead of Cole saying, "And now Daniel Bryan hits Randy Orton in the face. He's going to win the belt!", he has to say "And now Daniel Bryan hits Randy Orton in the face. He's going to win the WWE Championship".

They also may not shorten names. You can use "Bryan" for "Daniel Bryan" and "Orton" for "Randy Orton" but you aren't allowed to use "Taker" for "Undertaker" or "Punk" for CM Punk"

Obviously they have "Superstars and Divas" rather than "wresters and women's wrestlers". They are a Sports Entertainment company rather than a pro-wrestling or wrestling company, though now they use Live Entertainment. Oh and they have "members of the WWE Universe" rather than "fans"

Thanks Damocles. That's really helpful. The foreign object is a term used by one of my two characters watching to describe what Trish Stratus might do to help her wrestler out. I've also included Grandmaster Sexay and Scotty 2 Hotty in it.

I drifted away from wrestling after the Invasion storyline in 2000/2001. I felt WWE wasted lots of WCW talent despite the potential for the organisation to improve significantly with their arrival. The lack of genuine competition never helped either.

 

[Damocles]

Tried to watch it a bit more recently.

Noticed a page or so back that this one could be one of the worst Wrestlemania's - which one's are currently regarded as the worst? I read something on the Wiki page for XI a few weeks ago saying that to some it's considered the worst, but to others it saved the company - why?

Personally, I always thought that Wrestlemania was always a let down. The big matches never seem to be the peak of a rivalry - always when they've either overdone it or just thrown it together because it could be good.

Very much in the eye of the beholder. With that said, WM11 is consider by many to be the worst Wrestlemania for a few reasons:

• The card itself and the quality of matches were pretty awful.
  
• The last match which is considered the main event was Bam Bam Bigelow versus an American Football player which many felt devauled the belt
  
• Useless celebrity appearances from Pamela Anderson, Jenny McCarthy, Jonathan Taylor Thomas and others. This was the start of the WWE using C grade celebrities rather than the A list Muhammed Ali/Liberace type people of previous years.
  
• Many of the bouts were just seemingly thrown together at the last minute.

It's worth noting that after this Wrestlemania, due to Kevin Nash/Diesel having the worst drawing title run in WWE history, the increased production quality of WCW and better in ring product, the ratings and buyrates for WWF started to nosedive into financial oblivion hitting the very bottom during WM13 which only drew 237,000 buys.

Outside of pudge, there aren't too many people who think WM30 could sink even into the worst 10 WMs ever. It seems a pretty solidly built card with some nice attractions and the inevitable Daniel Bryan win which many have clamoured for.

 

[pinkwheeltrim]

In 2000, the WWF didn't refer to them as foreign objects though that was their name.

You might as be interested to know that announcers in the WWF have a set of rules on terminology. Some of these include never, ever using pronouns. So instead of saying "Daniel Bryan really nailed Triple H's face with that one! He's really going to work on him", they will be forced to say "Daniel Bryan really nailed Triple H's face with that one! Daniel Bryan's really going to work on Triple H's face".

Also, they may not refer to a championship as an object. It is never a "belt" nor is it a "title" or a "strap" or "the gold". It is always the WWE Heavyweight Championship. So instead of Cole saying, "And now Daniel Bryan hits Randy Orton in the face. He's going to win the belt!", he has to say "And now Daniel Bryan hits Randy Orton in the face. He's going to win the WWE Championship".

They also may not shorten names. You can use "Bryan" for "Daniel Bryan" and "Orton" for "Randy Orton" but you aren't allowed to use "Taker" for "Undertaker" or "Punk" for CM Punk"

Obviously they have "Superstars and Divas" rather than "wresters and women's wrestlers". They are a Sports Entertainment company rather than a pro-wrestling or wrestling company, though now they use Live Entertainment. Oh and they have "members of the WWE Universe" rather than "fans"

Thanks Damocles. That's really helpful. The foreign object is a term used by one of my two characters watching to describe what Trish Stratus might do to help her wrestler out. I've also included Grandmaster Sexay and Scotty 2 Hotty in it.

I drifted away from wrestling after the Invasion storyline in 2000/2001. I felt WWE wasted lots of WCW talent despite the potential for the organisation to improve significantly with their arrival. The lack of genuine competition never helped either.

That's exactly when I stopped watching it. The way the WWE binned off talented WCW performers was bad enough (Mike Awesome springs to mind) but to then turn some great wrestlers into comedy characters was unforgivable (Lance Storm, DDP, etc) !

 

[Damocles]

That's exactly when I stopped watching it. The way the WWE binned off talented WCW performers was bad enough (Mike Awesome springs to mind) but to then turn some great wrestlers into comedy characters was unforgivable (Lance Storm, DDP, etc) !

The Invasion angle, and I don't say this lightly, is the worst handled angle in the history of the wrestling business. Vince McMahon essentially took a few hundred million dollars in cash, put it in his ring and set it on fire.

Absolute insanity.

 

[pinkwheeltrim]

That's exactly when I stopped watching it. The way the WWE binned off talented WCW performers was bad enough (Mike Awesome springs to mind) but to then turn some great wrestlers into comedy characters was unforgivable (Lance Storm, DDP, etc) !

The Invasion angle, and I don't say this lightly, is the worst handled angle in the history of the wrestling business. Vince McMahon essentially took a few hundred million dollars in cash, put it in his ring and set it on fire.

Absolute insanity.

It seemed to me at the time that the whole mess was cobbled together at the last minute, with the sole aim of finding a way to turn Kurt Angle into a Babyface. The fans just weren't having it and Angle was a heel again in a matter of weeks. Meanwhile loads of former WCW talent was flushed down the toilet.

 

[pudge]

Tried to watch it a bit more recently.

Noticed a page or so back that this one could be one of the worst Wrestlemania's - which one's are currently regarded as the worst? I read something on the Wiki page for XI a few weeks ago saying that to some it's considered the worst, but to others it saved the company - why?

Personally, I always thought that Wrestlemania was always a let down. The big matches never seem to be the peak of a rivalry - always when they've either overdone it or just thrown it together because it could be good.

Very much in the eye of the beholder. With that said, WM11 is consider by many to be the worst Wrestlemania for a few reasons:

• The card itself and the quality of matches were pretty awful.
  
• The last match which is considered the main event was Bam Bam Bigelow versus an American Football player which many felt devauled the belt
  
• Useless celebrity appearances from Pamela Anderson, Jenny McCarthy, Jonathan Taylor Thomas and others. This was the start of the WWE using C grade celebrities rather than the A list Muhammed Ali/Liberace type people of previous years.
  
• Many of the bouts were just seemingly thrown together at the last minute.

It's worth noting that after this Wrestlemania, due to Kevin Nash/Diesel having the worst drawing title run in WWE history, the increased production quality of WCW and better in ring product, the ratings and buyrates for WWF started to nosedive into financial oblivion hitting the very bottom during WM13 which only drew 237,000 buys.

Outside of pudge, there aren't too many people who think WM30 could sink even into the worst 10 WMs ever. It seems a pretty solidly built card with some nice attractions and the inevitable Daniel Bryan win which many have clamoured for.

You almost had me but you just went a little too far

 

[Damocles]

It seemed to me at the time that the whole mess was cobbled together at the last minute, with the sole aim of finding a way to turn Kurt Angle into a Babyface. The fans just weren't having it and Angle was a heel again in a matter of weeks. Meanwhile loads of former WCW talent was flushed down the toilet.

You've got to put it in it's proper context. Vince McMahon owned the two biggest wrestling companies on the planet in a scenario that every single fan had wanted to see for 40 years. It was a license to print money. I think $250m is underselling its value even, he could have made a stonking amount of cash.

Instead there were a few problems. Firstly, somebody in talent relations dropped the ball who I presume was John Laurinaitis. He asked that all WCW wrestlers in or around the backstage area wear WCW branded shirts. I'm not even kidding.
The WWE wrestlers didn't like these people at all; a few years earlier they were talking about putting the WWE out of business which would mean that the wrestlers had no way of feeding their kids and paying their mortgages. That breeds an irritation at the best of times. The shirts thing just highlighted the separation.

Secondly, Vince McMahon said that he couldn't afford to bring in the guys on the very top contracts such as Goldberg, Sting and the nWo as they were all on guaranteed money for sitting at home. This was when the WWE was making hundreds of millions per year. Because of this the WCW invasion angle started when Lance Storm and Buff Bagwell showed up on WWE television. He may as well have sent the Shockmaster in terms of star power to kick off an angle. Ironically, with the exception of Sting, Vince bought out these contracts about a year later anyway. Maybe he didn't start a football league that year?

Thirdly and here's the really good one, Vince was convinced that WCW wrestlers couldn't work. Due to this he put WWF guys like Austin and Angle in the WCW faction. For the last match at the Invasion PPV to decide everybody's fate, Team Alliance consisted of the Dudleyz (been in WWE for several years), Booker T, DDP (had never won a match in WWE) and Rhyno (been in WWE for several years).

In addition to all of these he turned the angle into a rivalry about the McMahon family that absolutely nobody cared about or particularly wanted to see.

If he would have brought in the big stars of WCW and have them look legitimate against the big stars of WWE, he would have made an absolute ton of money that carried the company for a good 5 years. Instead he made it all about the McMahons and how shite WCW was which nobody wanted to watch. Booking good wrestling matches isn't rocket science; you get two people who the crowd like and dislike and give them a good reason to fight with a roughly equal chance of winning. The Invasion was booking Andre the Giant versus Hornswoggle 700 times in a row and wondering why it didn't sell out every night.<br /><br />-- Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:19 pm --<br /><br />

You almost had me but you just went a little too far

It's alright. Bryan-HHH is solid, Taker-Lesnar is solid, Hogan is an attraction as is the Battle Royal.

It's not the greatest WM card ever but certainly not the worst at this point.

 

[pudge]

It seemed to me at the time that the whole mess was cobbled together at the last minute, with the sole aim of finding a way to turn Kurt Angle into a Babyface. The fans just weren't having it and Angle was a heel again in a matter of weeks. Meanwhile loads of former WCW talent was flushed down the toilet.

You've got to put it in it's proper context. Vince McMahon owned the two biggest wrestling companies on the planet in a scenario that every single fan had wanted to see for 40 years. It was a license to print money. I think $250m is underselling its value even, he could have made a stonking amount of cash.

Instead there were a few problems. Firstly, somebody in talent relations dropped the ball who I presume was John Laurinaitis. He asked that all WCW wrestlers in or around the backstage area wear WCW branded shirts. I'm not even kidding.
The WWE wrestlers didn't like these people at all; a few years earlier they were talking about putting the WWE out of business which would mean that the wrestlers had no way of feeding their kids and paying their mortgages. That breeds an irritation at the best of times. The shirts thing just highlighted the separation.

Secondly, Vince McMahon said that he couldn't afford to bring in the guys on the very top contracts such as Goldberg, Sting and the nWo as they were all on guaranteed money for sitting at home. This was when the WWE was making hundreds of millions per year. Because of this the WCW invasion angle started when Lance Storm and Buff Bagwell showed up on WWE television. He may as well have sent the Shockmaster in terms of star power to kick off an angle. Ironically, with the exception of Sting, Vince bought out these contracts about a year later anyway. Maybe he didn't start a football league that year?

Thirdly and here's the really good one, Vince was convinced that WCW wrestlers couldn't work. Due to this he put WWF guys like Austin and Angle in the WCW faction. For the last match at the Invasion PPV to decide everybody's fate, Team Alliance consisted of the Dudleyz (been in WWE for several years), Booker T, DDP (had never won a match in WWE) and Rhyno (been in WWE for several years).

In addition to all of these he turned the angle into a rivalry about the McMahon family that absolutely nobody cared about or particularly wanted to see.

If he would have brought in the big stars of WCW and have them look legitimate against the big stars of WWE, he would have made an absolute ton of money that carried the company for a good 5 years. Instead he made it all about the McMahons and how shite WCW was which nobody wanted to watch. Booking good wrestling matches isn't rocket science; you get two people who the crowd like and dislike and give them a good reason to fight with a roughly equal chance of winning. The Invasion was booking Andre the Giant versus Hornswoggle 700 times in a row and wondering why it didn't sell out every night.

-- Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:19 pm --

You almost had me but you just went a little too far

It's alright. Bryan-HHH is solid, Taker-Lesnar is solid, Hogan is an attraction as is the Battle Royal.

It's not the greatest WM card ever but certainly not the worst at this point.

The Battle Royal could be moved to the pre show and based on the above reasoning your definition of solid is sketchy at best to be fair.

There's no story telling to this WM, and those that can actually tell one through their wrestling are in matches with ones that can't. Plus it's ridiculously predictable at this point as even taker's match isn't the most predictable of them all.

I didn't say it was going to be the worst but it has all the makings of being utterly abysmal

 

[Damocles]

I think we're talking past each other. I didn't mean "the card is a solid card", I meant "the matches on the card have some angles that are built pretty decently"