General Wrestling Thread

[Bluemoon115]

It seemed to me at the time that the whole mess was cobbled together at the last minute, with the sole aim of finding a way to turn Kurt Angle into a Babyface. The fans just weren't having it and Angle was a heel again in a matter of weeks. Meanwhile loads of former WCW talent was flushed down the toilet.

You've got to put it in it's proper context. Vince McMahon owned the two biggest wrestling companies on the planet in a scenario that every single fan had wanted to see for 40 years. It was a license to print money. I think $250m is underselling its value even, he could have made a stonking amount of cash.

Instead there were a few problems. Firstly, somebody in talent relations dropped the ball who I presume was John Laurinaitis. He asked that all WCW wrestlers in or around the backstage area wear WCW branded shirts. I'm not even kidding.
The WWE wrestlers didn't like these people at all; a few years earlier they were talking about putting the WWE out of business which would mean that the wrestlers had no way of feeding their kids and paying their mortgages. That breeds an irritation at the best of times. The shirts thing just highlighted the separation.

Secondly, Vince McMahon said that he couldn't afford to bring in the guys on the very top contracts such as Goldberg, Sting and the nWo as they were all on guaranteed money for sitting at home. This was when the WWE was making hundreds of millions per year. Because of this the WCW invasion angle started when Lance Storm and Buff Bagwell showed up on WWE television. He may as well have sent the Shockmaster in terms of star power to kick off an angle. Ironically, with the exception of Sting, Vince bought out these contracts about a year later anyway. Maybe he didn't start a football league that year?

Thirdly and here's the really good one, Vince was convinced that WCW wrestlers couldn't work. Due to this he put WWF guys like Austin and Angle in the WCW faction. For the last match at the Invasion PPV to decide everybody's fate, Team Alliance consisted of the Dudleyz (been in WWE for several years), Booker T, DDP (had never won a match in WWE) and Rhyno (been in WWE for several years).

In addition to all of these he turned the angle into a rivalry about the McMahon family that absolutely nobody cared about or particularly wanted to see.

If he would have brought in the big stars of WCW and have them look legitimate against the big stars of WWE, he would have made an absolute ton of money that carried the company for a good 5 years. Instead he made it all about the McMahons and how shite WCW was which nobody wanted to watch. Booking good wrestling matches isn't rocket science; you get two people who the crowd like and dislike and give them a good reason to fight with a roughly equal chance of winning. The Invasion was booking Andre the Giant versus Hornswoggle 700 times in a row and wondering why it didn't sell out every night.

-- Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:19 pm --

You almost had me but you just went a little too far

It's alright. Bryan-HHH is solid, Taker-Lesnar is solid, Hogan is an attraction as is the Battle Royal.

It's not the greatest WM card ever but certainly not the worst at this point.

It was flawed from the get go.

ECW hated WCW, the "Alliance" was an insult, and if anything, WWF and ECW would have been the "Alliance".

They could have easily run with a battle of the best, with maybe one or two defctions. But the way it changed every week was ridiculous. Why would Kurt Angle join two companies he's never worked for, over the company that made him a superstar?

Also, if they had done it properly, and once it started to fizzle, out, they should have introduced the NWO as a game changer. Both sides had plenty of ex members, it could have been beautiful.

Also, you've remembered the match that decided everything wrong. While that was the Invasion team for the Alliance, everyone's fate was decided at Survivor Series, where they had a team of RVD (Fair enough), Booker T (Again, fair), Angle (No affiliation whatsoever), Stone Cold (Who got buried in WCW), and Shane Mcmahon (What?).

How could they get such a fantastic opportunity wrong?

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

It seemed to me at the time that the whole mess was cobbled together at the last minute, with the sole aim of finding a way to turn Kurt Angle into a Babyface. The fans just weren't having it and Angle was a heel again in a matter of weeks. Meanwhile loads of former WCW talent was flushed down the toilet.

You've got to put it in it's proper context. Vince McMahon owned the two biggest wrestling companies on the planet in a scenario that every single fan had wanted to see for 40 years. It was a license to print money. I think $250m is underselling its value even, he could have made a stonking amount of cash.

Instead there were a few problems. Firstly, somebody in talent relations dropped the ball who I presume was John Laurinaitis. He asked that all WCW wrestlers in or around the backstage area wear WCW branded shirts. I'm not even kidding.
The WWE wrestlers didn't like these people at all; a few years earlier they were talking about putting the WWE out of business which would mean that the wrestlers had no way of feeding their kids and paying their mortgages. That breeds an irritation at the best of times. The shirts thing just highlighted the separation.

Secondly, Vince McMahon said that he couldn't afford to bring in the guys on the very top contracts such as Goldberg, Sting and the nWo as they were all on guaranteed money for sitting at home. This was when the WWE was making hundreds of millions per year. Because of this the WCW invasion angle started when Lance Storm and Buff Bagwell showed up on WWE television. He may as well have sent the Shockmaster in terms of star power to kick off an angle. Ironically, with the exception of Sting, Vince bought out these contracts about a year later anyway. Maybe he didn't start a football league that year?

Thirdly and here's the really good one, Vince was convinced that WCW wrestlers couldn't work. Due to this he put WWF guys like Austin and Angle in the WCW faction. For the last match at the Invasion PPV to decide everybody's fate, Team Alliance consisted of the Dudleyz (been in WWE for several years), Booker T, DDP (had never won a match in WWE) and Rhyno (been in WWE for several years).

In addition to all of these he turned the angle into a rivalry about the McMahon family that absolutely nobody cared about or particularly wanted to see.

If he would have brought in the big stars of WCW and have them look legitimate against the big stars of WWE, he would have made an absolute ton of money that carried the company for a good 5 years. Instead he made it all about the McMahons and how shite WCW was which nobody wanted to watch. Booking good wrestling matches isn't rocket science; you get two people who the crowd like and dislike and give them a good reason to fight with a roughly equal chance of winning. The Invasion was booking Andre the Giant versus Hornswoggle 700 times in a row and wondering why it didn't sell out every night.

-- Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:19 pm --

You almost had me but you just went a little too far

It's alright. Bryan-HHH is solid, Taker-Lesnar is solid, Hogan is an attraction as is the Battle Royal.

It's not the greatest WM card ever but certainly not the worst at this point.

It was flawed from the get go.

ECW hated WCW, the "Alliance" was an insult, and if anything, WWF and ECW would have been the "Alliance".

They could have easily run with a battle of the best, with maybe one or two defctions. But the way it changed every week was ridiculous. Why would Kurt Angle join two companies he's never worked for, over the company that made him a superstar?

Also, if they had done it properly, and once it started to fizzle, out, they should have introduced the NWO as a game changer. Both sides had plenty of ex members, it could have been beautiful.

Also, you've remembered the match that decided everything wrong. While that was the Invasion team for the Alliance, everyone's fate was decided at Survivor Series, where they had a team of RVD (Fair enough), Booker T (Again, fair), Angle (No affiliation whatsoever), Stone Cold (Who got buried in WCW), and Shane Mcmahon (What?).

How could they get such a fantastic opportunity wrong?

because Vince's ego hates letting him see anyone be a success that wasn't his own creation, he was never going to give the rival companies any kudos whatsoever so that angle was dead straight off.

There's plenty they could do in this era along the same lines but it will never happen, and they could get the new generation over in the process. They cocked up Nash coming back, and they cocked up the McMahon power struggle, which is typical but still a shame.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

great twist, even though I hate HHH's ego and the way he likes to bury everyone in promos that was a great segment.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

haha, loved the sign when Sheamus came out, "Happy Gingers Day".

 

[peoffrey]

ECW hated WCW, the "Alliance" was an insult, and if anything, WWF and ECW would have been the "Alliance".

I always saw ECW as being on one side and WCW as being on the other with the WWF being in the middle. The chance of ECW fans accepting an alliance with the WCW is remote at best so it was never going to work.

 

[Yaya_Tony]

The way raw finished last night was a bit nuts... Generated a bit of heat though, job done. Wrestlemania is suddenly looking decent imho.

 

[pinkwheeltrim]

Also, you've remembered the match that decided everything wrong. While that was the Invasion team for the Alliance, everyone's fate was decided at Survivor Series, where they had a team of RVD (Fair enough), Booker T (Again, fair), Angle (No affiliation whatsoever), Stone Cold (Who got buried in WCW), and Shane Mcmahon (What?).

How could they get such a fantastic opportunity wrong?

Your right mate, I do remember it all wrong, it was years ago and like I said, I stopped watching soon after.

All this wrestling talk has reminded me of the very first Wrestlemania I ever saw, Wrestlemania 7. Nothing will ever beat the thrill I felt as 'The Rockers' entrance music pounded out as they faced Haku (genuinely thought to be the hardest man ever involved in the WWF) and The Barbarian. At that moment I was hooked. Think I was about 13 at the time and I was a regular watcher of all wrestling (WWF WCW ECW) up until my mid twenties.



Out of interest, is the WWE still massively racist? Have they had a black world champ yet? WCW had Ron Symonds (became WWE non- entity, Farouq) and a young BookerT (Turned into a popular, but comedy, character by WWE). I also remember Japanese or Mexican wrestlers were always lumbered with ridiculous stereotype caricatures. Have things improved any?

 

[simonmdm]

The way raw finished last night was a bit nuts... Generated a bit of heat though, job done. Wrestlemania is suddenly looking decent imho.

I thought the beat down went on too long but other than that, it was a good segment.

 

[Yaya_Tony]

Also, you've remembered the match that decided everything wrong. While that was the Invasion team for the Alliance, everyone's fate was decided at Survivor Series, where they had a team of RVD (Fair enough), Booker T (Again, fair), Angle (No affiliation whatsoever), Stone Cold (Who got buried in WCW), and Shane Mcmahon (What?).

How could they get such a fantastic opportunity wrong?

Your right mate, I do remember it all wrong, it was years ago and like I said, I stopped watching soon after.

All this wrestling talk has reminded me of the very first Wrestlemania I ever saw, Wrestlemania 7. Nothing will ever beat the thrill I felt as 'The Rockers' entrance music pounded out as they faced Haku (genuinely thought to be the hardest man ever involved in the WWF) and The Barbarian. At that moment I was hooked. Think I was about 13 at the time and I was a regular watcher of all wrestling (WWF WCW ECW) up until my mid twenties.



Out of interest, is the WWE still massively racist? Have they had a black world champ yet? WCW had Ron Symonds (became WWE non- entity, Farouq) and a young BookerT (Turned into a popular, but comedy, character by WWE). I also remember Japanese or Mexican wrestlers were always lumbered with ridiculous stereotype caricatures. Have things improved any?

The Rock? Here is the family of new hall of famer Carlos Colon, they are now Los Matadores;http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Los_Matadores_&_El_Torito.jpg

Not to mention the usual Russian and Asian stereotypes which are still prevalent. Just a gimmick though, all good fun. The "origin" of Kofi Kingston always amused me.

Wrestlemania 9 was my first ppv, it gets a bad rep but i thought it was cool. Staged outdoors at Caesar's palace, the undertakers entrance, yokozuna kicking out of Bret hart and putting him 2 feet high doing it. Wasn't a fan of hulk hogan winning the title that year, but hooked for life. Used to practice the sharpshooter on each other with my brothers. Fun times.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

Also, you've remembered the match that decided everything wrong. While that was the Invasion team for the Alliance, everyone's fate was decided at Survivor Series, where they had a team of RVD (Fair enough), Booker T (Again, fair), Angle (No affiliation whatsoever), Stone Cold (Who got buried in WCW), and Shane Mcmahon (What?).

How could they get such a fantastic opportunity wrong?

Your right mate, I do remember it all wrong, it was years ago and like I said, I stopped watching soon after.

All this wrestling talk has reminded me of the very first Wrestlemania I ever saw, Wrestlemania 7. Nothing will ever beat the thrill I felt as 'The Rockers' entrance music pounded out as they faced Haku (genuinely thought to be the hardest man ever involved in the WWF) and The Barbarian. At that moment I was hooked. Think I was about 13 at the time and I was a regular watcher of all wrestling (WWF WCW ECW) up until my mid twenties.



Out of interest, is the WWE still massively racist? Have they had a black world champ yet? WCW had Ron Symonds (became WWE non- entity, Farouq) and a young BookerT (Turned into a popular, but comedy, character by WWE). I also remember Japanese or Mexican wrestlers were always lumbered with ridiculous stereotype caricatures. Have things improved any?

Booker was World Champ in WWE, as has The Rock, as has Mark Henry, as will I suspect Big E Langston one day.