George Floyd murder | Clashes between US police and protestors

Status
Not open for further replies.
What happened to the guy in the States needs calling out, no question about that.

At the moment we are far from out of the woods regarding the covid crisis. Yet again we see 1000s gathering in this country to protest, quite possibly in doing so putting 1000s more lives many from bame communities at risk. That for me is not acceptable, this did not happen in this country.

Why is the government allowing this to take place whilst no other form of gathering of such a size would be tolerated?

As for America I dread to think what the covid consequences will be from what is going on over there. One life very wrongly lost should not lead to many thousands of innocent lives being put at risk. I like the Americans overall regardless of colour, though I like orange ones less than any other colour, but that liking does not extend to having my country put in danger because of what happened.

I should imagine we are close to a series of copy cat riots. Another burst of sunny hot weather, and a couple of marches or gatherings going bad could lead to a nasty situation. That's the only reason I can think of it being allowed.
 
There has always been a "Tory's will privatise the NHS" thread throughout politcs, they certainly have ( in real terms ) reduced it since austerity ( 250k beds vs 140k now etc etc ) and parts have been privatised, but I have never believed the Tory's would fully privatise it... Until this year. in terms of actually selling off the NHS. We've never been in this situation before. with Brexit we are going to be in a very tricky place. if we want a trade deal with the USA then the NHS will be on the table whether we like it or not. It was part of TTIP when they were dealing with a trading partner larger than them. we may have had the power to stop them as part of the EU but on our own is a whole different ball game,
It should be remembered that pretty much every developed nation has been reducing hospital beds over the last 30 years, much of which is down to improvements in clinical care and procedures, and knowledge that shorter lengths of stay result in fewer hospital acquired infections.
 
I should imagine we are close to a series of copy cat riots. Another burst of sunny hot weather, and a couple of marches or gatherings going bad could lead to a nasty situation. That's the only reason I can think of it being allowed.

I would have thought on that basis the government would have cracked down on it...sent a message out. I rather fear it is yet another example of the government not wanting to cause race related accusations even at the cost of risking disaster. Kicking the can up the road is a speciality of British governments and this one is no different.

Despite my tongue in cheek thread suggesting a summer of apocalyptic deluge the forecast suggests that this cool damp weather will be a brief visitor before returning to hot sunny weather for at least the majority of June. So the almost unheard of long hot summer taken for granted by many in Europe but almost unheard off here could actually happen this time(probably not) . I think the government would be clutching at straws if they were banking on the usual British summer weather to dampen down any fury.
 
The reason why some find it unacceptable is because they aren't exposed enough to Bernie's message, so they're walking around thinking he's some extreme radical lefty loony communist. The media tells them one version of his policies, not a very flattering one, and that's the narrative they know, so when you meet one and ask them about Bernie's universal healthcare plans, they immediately ask 'well how is he going to pay for it?', essentially parroting CNN pundits, as if the military budget doesn't get a multi-million dollar increases every single year, despite the fact America already spends more on military than the next TEN (!!!) countries combined and nobody ever asks how they can afford that.

They've managed to convince voters that somehow any socialist programme or policy is going to be so impossibly expensive that it'll eventually tank the economy and they'll end up losing their jobs.

So the reason Sanders' message was rather resoundingly rejected by Democratic voters in the Presidential primaries this year was "the media's" fault?

Didn't Sanders -- not CNN, Sanders -- say pretty explicitly that the way we'd pay for M4A ($32T) was tax increases? Not cutting military spending? (Note: yes, quite explicitly. Read his plan.)

I'm reliably informed that voters don't really like tax increases.

Back OT.
 
It should be remembered that pretty much every developed nation has been reducing hospital beds over the last 30 years, much of which is down to improvements in clinical care and procedures, and knowledge that shorter lengths of stay result in fewer hospital acquired infections.

Wonder what the German level of hospital acquired infections is as they keep a pretty large stock of spare beds in place to deal with the worst flu outbreaks and keep people in until they are ready to leave. if I recall correctly I saw one article about a cancer operation where we discharge in 1 day but they discharge in 5/7 days as they dont have to free up beds for new patients.

Edit:
2000-20017
Germany went from 749,473 down to 661,448, a reduction of 11%, 88k beds.
Uk went from 240,114 down to 167,598 a reduction of 29%, 72k beds.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/557270/hospital-beds-in-germany/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/473264/number-of-hospital-beds-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/
 
Last edited:
EZlm9JEXkAIvbLH
 
Wonder what the German level of hospital acquired infections is as they keep a pretty large stock of spare beds in place to deal with the worst flu outbreaks and keep people in until they are ready to leave. if I recall correctly I saw one article about a cancer operation where we discharge in 1 day but they discharge in 5/7 days as they dont have to free up beds for new patients.
Don't want to derail the thread, just thought it proper to put some info to the reason behind the trend for reducing bed numbers, but many countries have done it, including Germany. The argument about whether we have reduced too far is another thing, I probably think we have, but many hospitals cite lack of elderly social care as the main reason for lack of available beds rather than actual bed numbers per se.
 
Yeah it can get quite frustrating. If I was an American, I probably would be a political activist or community organiser of some sort because I genuinely believe the public is being robbed of things that should really be fundamental rights.

I can understand the 'unrealistic, pie in the sky' comments if they're referring to the current political set up and how difficult it would be to implement unpopular ideas (among the lawmakers, not the public) when powerful people are fighting you at every turn, irrespective of how well meaning someone like Bernie might be. The policies themselves are anything but unrealistic. I understand it though, but I'd still rather have a strong progressive who will aggressively pursue his policy ideas once in office rather than literally anyone else - sadly the progressive base will need to find someone new to hang their hopes on now.

I get it. Well, I understand the mindset, at least about being defeatist.

With the 'pie-in-the-sky' thinker, I think they forget about primaries when it comes to someone like Sanders. If people want the change, change the senator at the ballot box.

There needs to be a People's Party to force real choice if Sanders is not willing to reactivate his Pres run.

It should be about business and the future of the US, not friendship where he and Biden are concerned.
 
I wish Americans would rise up in equal anger at the all too frequent occasions when loons use legally owned high powered rifles even machine guns to rip apart dozens of small children and high school kids.
The rights and lives of kids at school must always take priority but the fact that it keeps happening no matter which party or president is in power for the sake of a stupid old right to bear arms shows something is rotten in the state of the States.
 
Yeah it can get quite frustrating. If I was an American, I probably would be a political activist or community organiser of some sort because I genuinely believe the public is being robbed of things that should really be fundamental rights.

I can understand the 'unrealistic, pie in the sky' comments if they're referring to the current political set up and how difficult it would be to implement unpopular ideas (among the lawmakers, not the public) when powerful people are fighting you at every turn, irrespective of how well meaning someone like Bernie might be. The policies themselves are anything but unrealistic. I understand it though, but I'd still rather have a strong progressive who will aggressively pursue his policy ideas once in office rather than literally anyone else - sadly the progressive base will need to find someone new to hang their hopes on now.

It's going to be AOC I reckon.
 
It's going to be AOC I reckon.

The problem with AOC, great as she is, is that she's becoming a female Bernie.

Which pretty much makes her unelectable because every corporate interest in the country will paint her as a communist for the next 10 years and she'll lose vast swathes of centrist support.

Women are already considered more radical than men with identical policies, and she's got to overcome sexism as well.

So the only way she's going to be a Democratic candidate for President one day is if she very visibly shifts towards the centre, or if the country moves left as a whole after 8+ years of Dem control of legislative and executive branches and she no longer looks extreme.

Worth remembering though, she's literally 30. She's only been in government for 1 year.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top