George Floyd murder / Derek Chauvin guilty of murder

Blue Mist said:
@ZenHalfTimeCrock as an Englishman I am not an expert on an American justice but I think one reason behind defunding the cops is that they have a very powerful union who will back the members no matter how guilty they are. By defunding you can start again, recruit officers you know are straight, do away with iffy ones and lessen the power of the union. I do not think the sensible BLM guys are saying get rid of the cops all together...………… but I might be wrong ;-)
Click to expand...
Yup, you are wrong :)
 
"one of the primary reasons to have a legal system is to take certain people out of the picture. It is what justifies the immense power the police hold. If you don't incapacitate violent actors, they keep pushing people around until someone makes them stop. When violent people are permitted to operate with impunity, they get their way. Advantage tilts to them. Others are forced to do their bidding.

No amount of 'community' feeling feeling or activism can eclipse this dynamic. People often assert that the solution to homicide is for the so-called community to 'step up'. It is a pernicious distortion. People like Jessica Midkiff [an exceptionally vulnerable potential eyewitness to a murder] cannot be expected to stand up to killers. They need safety, not stronger moral conviction. They need some powerful outside force to sweep in and take their tormentors away. That's what the criminal justice system is for.''

@ZenHalfTimeCrock the above explains why I don't and can't support defunding the police. It's a nonstarter for me.
 
Dax777 said:
"one of the primary reasons to have a legal system is to take certain people out of the picture. It is what justifies the immense power the police hold. If you don't incapacitate violent actors, they keep pushing people around until someone makes them stop. When violent people are permitted to operate with impunity, they get their way. Advantage tilts to them. Others are forced to do their bidding.

No amount of 'community' feeling feeling or activism can eclipse this dynamic. People often assert that the solution to homicide is for the so-called community to 'step up'. It is a pernicious distortion. People like Jessica Midkiff [an exceptionally vulnerable potential eyewitness to a murder] cannot be expected to stand up to killers. They need safety, not stronger moral conviction. They need some powerful outside force to sweep in and take their tormentors away. That's what the criminal justice system is for.''

@ZenHalfTimeCrock the above explains why I don't and can't support defunding the police. It's a nonstarter for me.
Click to expand...

Surely it it just a manner of the judicial system trying everybody the same way. If anyone shoots someone else when the fear for their life is unjustified, then they should be convicted of murder.
 
Dax777 said:
"one of the primary reasons to have a legal system is to take certain people out of the picture. It is what justifies the immense power the police hold. If you don't incapacitate violent actors, they keep pushing people around until someone makes them stop. When violent people are permitted to operate with impunity, they get their way. Advantage tilts to them. Others are forced to do their bidding.

No amount of 'community' feeling feeling or activism can eclipse this dynamic. People often assert that the solution to homicide is for the so-called community to 'step up'. It is a pernicious distortion. People like Jessica Midkiff [an exceptionally vulnerable potential eyewitness to a murder] cannot be expected to stand up to killers. They need safety, not stronger moral conviction. They need some powerful outside force to sweep in and take their tormentors away. That's what the criminal justice system is for.''

@ZenHalfTimeCrock the above explains why I don't and can't support defunding the police. It's a nonstarter for me.
Click to expand...
As I understand it, 'defund the police' is badly worded. Sure there are people who support abolishing the police outright, but most of the people who I've seen argue in favour of defunding the police really mean diverting some of their budget to people who are better able to deal with particular issues. So when there's a person clearly having a mental health episode, you send a mental health expert, rather than cops who have maybe a few days training on the subject. And that isn't to say you don't send them with a couple of cops too, but just that a couple of cops with guns isn't the only thing you send to a volatile situation, and they follow the lead of someone who better knows what they're doing. The problem is, of course, that a lot of the things that could be funded instead take a lot longer to implement and see the results of. There needs to be some overlap where you fund the police properly (properly, not to the extent that they can buy military equipment they don't need) and fund other services properly to the point that the police become less necessary. But the reality is that the US police are some of the best-funded public organisations in the world and their crime rate is still ridiculously high by the standards of most developed countries. So there clearly comes a point where you have to accept that you're throwing good money after bad.
 
This song came out in the 60s describing events going on in the US and it every word could be describing the last few weeks.

Sad how it’s happening again and again.

 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Surely it it just a manner of the judicial system trying everybody the same way. If anyone shoots someone else when the fear for their life is unjustified, then they should be convicted of murder.
Click to expand...
As I had pointed out to @Bigga earlier, I am for reform and a rethink on the value of "qualified immunity." A lot of the cry of injustice stems from the belief (and sometimes reality) that cops ALWAYS get off.

Rethinking qualified immunity 'might' change that perception. Even though I strongly doubt it will. Perception is a had thing to shake. Even as the facts change, perception tends to stay stubbornly consistent.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top
✖
  AdBlock Detected
Bluemoon relies on advertising to pay our hosting fees. Please support the site by disabling your ad blocking software to help keep the forum sustainable. Thanks.