George Floyd murder / Derek Chauvin guilty of murder

[Ban-jani]

I think diverting costs away from police makes much more sense in the US than UK but playing devils advocate, isn’t polling in poor black communities against defunding the police? Ie they want a strong police force in their areas?

 

[inbetween]

Answer me this; why is it when White men can march as a group or individuals it's called a 'right', but when Black people do it, it called 'problems'?

It really is fooking annoying why one is 'accepted/ expected' and one not.

I agree, white people shouldn't be marching with guns either and with the link I posted it's definitely worth saying that there were also armed counter-protesters. I suppose the point is why does anyone need to march with assault rifles? What point is this trying to prove and how does it lend to any argument on defunding or disarming the police?

It's no different to celebrity climate protesters protesting about climate change when they flew to the protest in BA first class via their diesel powered super-yacht.

And? Do you even know what it means?

Do you think the US police should be purchasing hundreds of millions in surplus military grade vehicles and weaponry?

Do you not think that money could be better spent?

Less than 20% of Americans support the defund movement and crime generally across the US has been slowly falling whilst police budgets are higher than ever.

What would you spend the money on instead at the expense of potentially increasing crime? If you can guarantee no crime increase then great do it but how can you?

When it's your house being robbed will you be glad that more spending has gone into community centres? It soon changes then.

 

[BobKowalski]

Less than 20% of Americans support the defund movement and crime generally across the US has been slowly falling whilst police budgets are higher than ever.

What would you spend the money on instead at the expense of potentially increasing crime? If you can guarantee no crime increase then great do it but how can you?

When it's your house being robbed will you be glad that more spending has gone into community centres? It soon changes then.

Mental health services, drug rehabilitation, better social services, better housing, better education, homelessness.

A fleet of Armoured vehicles not so much.

 

[SWP's back]

Some areas of the states have half of their city budgets spent on the police, so isn’t ‘defunding the police‘ a means spending huge amounts of cash in a different way?
For example, should the system ensure that there are good quality services in the community so that somebody in mental health crisis gets the help they need, or an addict can get treatment, rather than getting arrested by the police and taken to a cell?

These are really important questions to ask when you think that, In the industrialised world, America has by far the biggest prison population, it has by far the most heavily resourced police forces, and has by far the largest crime rates and the lowest levels of public safety.
By any definition, whatever it’s got now, it’s not working....

Exactly.

 

[SWP's back]

What would you spend the money on instead at the expense of potentially increasing crime?

How much would crime increase by if county sheriffs didn’t purchase millions of dollars worth of surplus military grade vehicles and equipment?

 

[SWP's back]

Mental health services, drug rehabilitation, better social services, better housing, better education, homelessness.

A fleet of Armoured vehicles not so much.

This^^

 

[inbetween]

Mental health services, drug rehabilitation, better social services, better housing, better education, homelessness.

A fleet of Armoured vehicles not so much.

Indeed fine, but ask yourself first why they need armoured vehicles? Would you like to goto one of the 100+ shootings per day in a Ford Fiesta?

It must be remembered that as a direct result of the aftermath of the protests for George Floyds death, 19 people or so were shot and killed. In some of these incidents the police responded and were attacked by protesters for doing their job, the kind of thing I guess you agree with too?

I'm all for this idealist world stuff but like I said everyone changes their tune when it is their house being robbed, or their sons being killed, or they are the police officer forced to run into a gunfight with a water pistol.

I'm all for all of the things you have described but I'm afraid the darkest sides of society can't be resolved through disabling the only thing that protects us from them.

 

[inbetween]

How much would crime increase by if county sheriffs didn’t purchase millions of dollars worth of surplus military grade vehicles and equipment?

Do you have any evidence that this is the case? Every single police response video I've seen doesn't show the police turning up in tanks or with assault rifles. Local police in the US often don't even respond to suspected shootings in body armour. Now when federal agencies get involved it becomes a different matter but that's rare.

They do turn up to protests tooled up but that is for intimidation. The Met use the exact same tactic when they expect violence and so turn up in riot gear here in the UK. Just be glad you aren't in Europe or Asia where they bring the water cannons, tear gas and rubber bullets.

 

[SWP's back]

Indeed fine, but ask yourself first why they need armoured vehicles? Would you like to goto one of the 100+ shootings per day in a Ford Fiesta?

They don’t go to shootings in Bearcats. They go in standard police vehicles.

 

[SWP's back]

I'm all for this idealist world stuff but like I said everyone changes their tune when it is their house being robbed, or their sons being killed, or they are the police officer forced to run into a gunfight with a water pistol.

None of those require military vehicles.