George Floyd murder / Derek Chauvin guilty of murder

[Bigga]

Indeed fine, but ask yourself first why they need armoured vehicles? Would you like to goto one of the 100+ shootings per day in a Ford Fiesta?

It must be remembered that as a direct result of the aftermath of the protests for George Floyds death, 19 people or so were shot and killed. In some of these incidents the police responded and were attacked by protesters for doing their job, the kind of thing I guess you agree with too?

I'm all for this idealist world stuff but like I said everyone changes their tune when it is their house being robbed, or their sons being killed, or they are the police officer forced to run into a gunfight with a water pistol.

I'm all for all of the things you have described but I'm afraid the darkest sides of society can't be resolved through disabling the only thing that protects us from them.

So, let me ask you this; how many of those 19 people, do you think, would still be alive if there were no protests as Mr Floyd would still be breathing... If Chauvin had shown a little more Humanity...?

Nothing 'idealist' about that.

 

[Bigga]

To give him as much time as possible to comply

Presumably, to stop him getting a gun or driving away (and putting innocent people - including his kids, if they were aware of them- in danger during a potential high speed chase). If he had been waving a knife about as he was getting in the car they probably would have shot him from a distance. If he had a knife at all the officer obviously put his life in some danger to stop either of the 2 prior scenarios. I don't think a previous fight makes any difference as to whether he gets grabbed at that point

Yes, It's a shame there were no bodycams, all police should have them - as much for their own defence as the safety of citizens - hopefully the dashcam sheds further light

I'd like to you think carefully about what you've just said and apply logic of when an officer would draw a gun and shoot person of threat.

Just going off what you've just said, none it makes any sense.

 

[Silva_Spell]

I'd like to you think carefully about what you've just said and apply logic of when an officer would draw a gun and shoot person of threat.

Just going off what you've just said, none it makes any sense.

Give us a hint

 

[Bigga]

Give us a hint

Let me point it this way; when do YOU think would be the logical point to draw and shoot a man with a weapon? Let's think about when the weapon was seen. Let's think about why they chose that particular time to discharge the weapon and not earlier. If seeing the weapon before was not 'threat' enough to discharge earlier, why discharge when the victim had his back to the officers?

Just applying logic to any of that scenario, questions the police training, especially in light of the police shooting an ACTUAL threat a few pages ago.

There are not different sets of logic to be applied to a man outnumbered with a weapon, never mind an unseen weapon.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Tell you what - here's an idea - all US cops to wear body cams. Any body cam not turned on invalidates the testimony of the officer who didn't turn it on.

 

[Silva_Spell]

Let me point it this way; when do YOU think would be the logical point to draw and shoot a man with a weapon? Let's think about when the weapon was seen. Let's think about why they chose that particular time to discharge the weapon and not earlier. If seeing the weapon before was not 'threat' enough to discharge earlier, why discharge when the victim had his back to the officers?

Just applying logic to any of that scenario, questions the police training, especially in light of the police shooting an ACTUAL threat a few pages ago.

There are not different sets of logic to be applied to a man outnumbered with a weapon, never mind an unseen weapon.

"when do YOU think would be the logical point to draw and shoot a man with a weapon?"
By weapon I assume we're talking a melee weapon. When the wielder is moving in a way that indicates a threat (and after commands to drop the weapon, assuming there was a chance to issue commands) to police or public

"If seeing the weapon before was not 'threat' enough to discharge earlier, why discharge when the victim had his back to the officers?"
I gave 2 reasons for that. Neither involved him being shot for the knife. The 'weapons' would have been a potential gun in the vehicle or the vehicle itself (inadvertently)
We don't know exactly the circumstances surrounding the alleged knife, was it in his hand at some point?, was it on his belt? pocket? how many of the cops saw it? Was it actually a phone? etc.

I don't see any logical issue with the above compared to the Pellerin (if I recall his name correctly) shooting, if that's the one you're referring to.

edit: typo

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Jesus christ,i give up

I don’t blame ya!

 

[ChicagoBlue]

You are given the incredible responsibility of flying us and not killing us, Captain, and we don’t cut you any slack if you fuck up, and neither does the FAA or the airline you work for. You make split second decisions based on ever changing conditions. The police do too. Not very often, but you’re paid for those moments when situations are abnormal. You’re trained for them, relentlessly I gather. So are the police.

I agree COMPLETELY that casting aspersions about the police as a whole is wildly uncalled for, and unfair, just as casting aspersions about pilots generally based on those dipshits at Pinnacle who tried to reach the 40k club in a CRJ is unfair.

But police officers must be held to a higher standard of performance just as you must be. No mistakes, no excuses. Innocent people’s lives are at stake. Fortunately, as with pilots, the vast majority are, I think, very good at their jobs. At least the ones I know are.

You give me too much credit.
Comparing a 727/737/747/757/767/319/320 pilot to a cop cruising around police car in the dead of night in a big city in America is an unfair comparison. He is in far more jeopardy than me!

It’s me against the machine, and I’m trained to deal with each and every known potential anomaly. Change it to a person and now I have no idea what it is going to do, or why!

My job is easier 99.999% of the time, but when it goes so wrong that I can’t handle it, it’s not only 1 person who dies, it’s 189! That’ll make the news!

 

[ChicagoBlue]

looks like we are talking about a different case ? i am talking about the one who was shot eight times in the back

Me, too. And it was seven times, wasn’t it?

 

[ChicagoBlue]

I'm sorry I'm so late to this post!

Can I just ask you, if Blake had a knife, why wait until he was in his his open car door to shoot him??

Secondly, why would the police pull him back by his vest if

A) He'd been 'fighting with the police' and

B) He had a weapon...?

It seems pretty contradictory to not pull your guns on the man after he 'fought', never mind 'having a weapon'.

Maybe I'm blind but I didn't see him waving a knife around, he didn't seem particularly much in a hurry to get to his car. I'm trying to work out the logic of 'having a knife' and not waving it at police as he gets into the car...

I dunno, maybe if the cops had body cams and not just a witness' mobile phone to work off...

I am not sure I’m able to answer questions you have for yourself. Nor am I the designated spokesperson for Mr Blake’s actions.

I don’t know if Kenosha cops have Axion Body Cams. If they do, we may get more info. If they don’t, maybe it’s a cost issue. I’m not a spokesperson for Kenosha PD, either.

Rather, I’m just a guy who wore a HK USP 40 LEM to work for a decade, went through firearms training with DHS (mainly ex-FBI agents), and understand the legal and personal ramifications of the split second “shoot-don’t shoot” decision. From that experience, which may be unique on this Forum, I’m trying to help people understand there is ALWAYS more to the story than the video, but we are already off and running on the video!

I like to watch Brian Williams on TV news, but I was saddened to see him fall for the overtly politically lazy narrative being tendered. But, I’ve seen aviation stories that are treated in such a ridiculous manner as to understand that ALL news is biased by the person or organization delivering it to you.

None of that presupposes there are not things that could be done better, to include training. However, who is going to train the ever more violent, ever more casual perpetrators of what were once considered despicable crimes committed by mobsters and gangsters, to stop ignoring the authority police are supposed to bring to bear on the streets of the country?

None of that presupposes there are not things that could be done better, to include training. However, who is going to train the ever more violent, ever more casual perpetrators of what were once considered despicable crimes committed by mobsters and gangsters, to stop ignoring the authority police are supposed to bring to bear on the streets of the country?

That said, I wouldn’t be a cop in a city in the USA in 2020 for all the tea in China!