Get a grip!

[OB1]

Why are we playing a high defensive line/high pressing game if we don't (seemingly) have the personnel to play this way? In pre season you would have thought someone would have noticed. Even with Kompany Arsenal sliced through us like we didn't exist. Also I spent all pre season being tweeted by Vinny how great the preparation and training was so why were we so badly prepared for Cardiff and Hull specifically the concept that teams may at some stage put some pressure on us?

More importantly why am I getting the sinking feeling that I am being gently shepherded towards the door marked 'Transitional Season' rather then the door marked 'Major Trophies'?

We have the personnel to play it. I'm liable to take flak over this but the issue with our high line starts at the front. Playing Newcastle our starting forwards pressed very, very well. Cardiff dropped very deep and it wasn't really a problem. We lost that due to baffling errors on corners. Additionally, our fowards weren't linking well until Negredo came on. That is not an inherent criticism of Dzeko! Sorry for the bold but some fans can't grasp the concept that he might not be divine in nature and therefore infallible. For whatever reason, Negredo and Aguero seem to link better. You could also see a huge difference in how we played once Negredo came on against Hull and actually helped out with pressing. It was the difference between night and day.

I'm all in on the idea of Negrado for Dzeko and I say this despite being fond of Edin albeit in a way that you feel for the soft lad in the corner at parties. We lost at Cardiff because we committed the heinous crime of taking the lead in the 60th minute and then letting in 3 goals. I repeat this point because its the mental application or lack of it that will fuck us up far more than any of the tactical and formation discussions that rage on here. Championships are won and lost in the head and that more than anything is my overriding concern.

But back to this 'new system'. Is it any good, will it be effective for us and is it worth the pain? And if it is...why? This isn't aimed specifically at taconinja...

I agree absolutely about the mental application or strength issue: it does worry me and I wonder if Pellegrini may decide some the players have to go because of that; which won't happen in a hurry.

Agree with taco about the pressing or lack of it and have to ask if the players are simply not carrying out their instructions or lack the mental application to do the job consistently; they shouldn't but....

 

[East Level 2]

All the negative city fans . Go away are club and the real fans . Don't want you .go and support Barcelona .

Can I assume English isn't your first language? Or is it difficult to type while wearing a straight-jacket?

 

[Dribble]

I completely agree with this. Without wanting to excuse players playing poorly, I do think that the key to playing a high pressing game with a high defensive line is having centre halves with the ability to step out of defence with the ball and push up into central midfield positions, reducing the gaps for the opposition to work in. If you look at the two most effective teams when it comes to pressing high and playing a high defensive line then they'd currently have to be Dortmund and Barca. Both teams rely heavily on Hummels and Pique, and in Barca's case it's so important that they'll play a midfield player like Mascherano at centre half rather than a pure central defender to make sure that the threat remains.

Frankly, I think we need to overhaul the back 4 in the next two transfer windows. Vinny and and Nasty are the only two who would be guaranteed to stay and I'd be looking for at least one full back for each side and two centre halves. Between Zaba, Richards, Clichy and Kola we don't have a single cultured full back who has the quality of pass or cross required. Other than Vinny we don't have a centre half with the aggression and ball playing ability to step out of defence and close down space, win the ball, and then move forward like a more midfield player.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I think Txiki dropped a bollock in not paying the money Roma wanted for Marquinhos.

Why are we playing a high defensive line/high pressing game if we don't (seemingly) have the personnel to play this way? In pre season you would have thought someone would have noticed. Even with Kompany Arsenal sliced through us like we didn't exist. Also I spent all pre season being tweeted by Vinny how great the preparation and training was so why were we so badly prepared for Cardiff and Hull specifically the concept that teams may at some stage put some pressure on us?

More importantly why am I getting the sinking feeling that I am being gently shepherded towards the door marked 'Transitional Season' rather then the door marked 'Major Trophies'?

Baffling Bob, I agree.

That's why I posed the question elsewhere that perhaps Pellegrini underestimated our opponents. (And got my head bitten off for daring to say such a thing.)

I really hope that's the excuse. Buoyed by our thrashing of a big name club on the opening day, he went into the Cardiff game thinking we'd be a little light at the back, but never mind we'll score 6 and it will be a walk in the park.

If this is *not* the case, and he thought the way he set us up for Cardiff was just fine, then that is quite disturbing because at Stoke we would get annihilated playing like we did against Cardiff or Hull. God help us at somewhere like Liverpool.

So I prefer to think he just underestimated the so-called lesser opponents and won't make the same mistake a 3rd time.

Pellegrini painted himself into a corner with his statement of attacking football come what may and hopefully he has learned this is the Premier League, not the two team La Liga.

Pellegrini will be fine in time, but unfortunately time isn't a commodity we have in spades. I was completely baffled and pissed off when Txiki, Pellegrini all the coaching staff and the players gave the world's media our tactical blueprint before the season started. I've never heard of such a ridiculous scenario in my life. We gave everyone heads up as to what we were going to do and how we would likely set ourselves up thus giving everyone time to prepare for us!

A high line isn't our problem, it's not having the players with the pace and awareness to carry it off which is the issue and our lack of pace throughout the side was glaringly obvious from two seasons ago. We all agree we need pace, so if that be the case, why are we persevering with Garcia, Kolorov, Dzeko & Lescott? We had the ideal opportunity to get rid and replace and it looks like we've missed that boat for another 12 months.

Demichelis, Coloccini, Coentrao and a bid for Mata (who's apparently the subject of talks between PSG & Chelsea) would have made this a brilliant window, not exactly the blistering pace we need, but a definite upgrade on the players we need to bin-off. I'd also want us to consider using just one specialised midfielder (Fernandinho) in a defensive position and to play two advanced midfielders (Yaya and Silva/Jovetic) behind a lone striker with Navas and Milner out wide. This would give us energy further up the field and make us more compact as a playing unit.

I'm confident that Pellegrini will sort it, but I just hope our season doesn't go to pot before we start playing more effective football. We were lucky against Hull, I don't think we'll be so lucky against the better opposition that lies in wait for us.

 

[BobKowalski]

It's the same style of defending that Dortmund play. Same that Barcelona play. I'm not defending the debacle at Cardiff, but that wasn't due to playing a high line. That was a baffling period against corner kicks. Still inexcusable I agree. We seem to have remedied that looking at how committed players were against corners whilst playing Hull.

Here's the thing about a high line because it bears repeating. It is vulnerable to long balls through the middle. Very vulnerable. That's why it's so dependent on having the forwards committing to the pressing game. Otherwise, the deep midfielders of the opposition can pick out runs from their forwards. And honestly not even world-class CBs can handle that the entire game. I don't dislike Dzeko. I think he's a quality player. He has to buy into 90 minutes of pressing, though. He has to do that or we have to look elsewhere.

Well thats 2 teams. The concept of hunting the ball down before pressure can be applied to the back line is not revolutionary its something we have been doing for some seasons. Our defensive record improved to the best in the PL not just because we shielded the back 4 better with Nigel and Gareth but because we did defend/press from the front. Not necessarily to the extent Barca press, but well enough for the system as a whole to be effective. Having someone like Tevez upfront definitely helps. Having Dzeko does not. Negrado does seem to put himself about more so if we are to play this new system starting Negrado over Dzeko is a no brainer.

I agree that the without adequate pressing at the top end and with little or no midfield shield our back line is exposed and its no surprise its looking 'shaky' and whilst having Kompany back should improve the situation I don't see it as a cure since the exposure/vulnerability will remain as its a structural exposure rather than personnel and has to be addressed further up the field.

Personally I think its pure folly to change the system and not pick the players that best suit it. I would go further and say it makes more sense to pick a system that suits the players available to you rather then enforce a wholesale change and that includes the switch from zonal to man marking. I don't see Pellegrini abandoning this 'new system' if only because I get the impression that for him its this way or no way which brings me to something else that has struck me about Pellegrini and that is his 'game management' so far.

Firstly he seems to sub by numbers and goes ahead with prearranged substitutions irrespective of what is happening on the pitch. In the last two games he has made a sub just after we have scored. This is in my view can kill the momentum you gain from scoring and in neither case did we kick on from having scored. Pellegrini is also quite passive when its going wrong. The first game I saw of Pellegrini was Malaga's last game and they were 3-0 down after 15 minutes. Pellegrini's response was to blink a lot. Mancini in many ways interferred too much and, oddly, is much more of a gambler than Pellegrini or Hughes - I say 'oddly' because the popular impression of Mancini is one of Italian caution. Yet when it came to substitutions or team selection Manicni could and did produce a lot of 'left field' picks that had you scratching your head at times even when they worked.

Obviously there is a happy medium between being too reactive and little or no reaction. In the CL last season I think Mancini just didn't trust the players enough and over compensated so Pellegrini's passive approach could produce a better overall outcome however I think in the PL Pellegrini needs to get in there and react more to what is happening on the pitch otherwise any title challenge will just fade and fade quickly.

 

[Matthew 7795]

All the negative city fans . Go away are club and the real fans . Don't want you .go and support Barcelona .

Can I assume English isn't your first language? Or is it difficult to type while wearing a straight-jacket?

No I can't speak english . But I seat in east stand .would you have the bottle to say that to my face .dont think so just another d--k who is brave behind his keyboard.

 

[Bill]

All the negative city fans . Go away are club and the real fans . Don't want you .go and support Barcelona .

Can I assume English isn't your first language? Or is it difficult to type while wearing a straight-jacket?

No I can't speak english . But I seat in east stand .would you have the bottle to say that to my face .dont think so just another d--k who is brave behind his keyboard.

short and sweet at least.

 

[Joycee Banercheck]

Can I assume English isn't your first language? Or is it difficult to type while wearing a straight-jacket?

No I can't speak english . But I seat in east stand .would you have the bottle to say that to my face .dont think so just another d--k who is brave behind his keyboard.

short and sweet at least.

I'm always up for a fight!

 

[East Level 2]

All the negative city fans . Go away are club and the real fans . Don't want you .go and support Barcelona .

Can I assume English isn't your first language? Or is it difficult to type while wearing a straight-jacket?

No I can't speak english . But I seat in east stand .would you have the bottle to say that to my face .dont think so just another d--k who is brave behind his keyboard.

You don't know me and I don't know you so either of us could be making a mistake. But I'll be as negative (or positive) as I want and won't be supporting Barcelona.

And I don't like pulling this card but "Where were you when we were shit?"

 

[East Level 2]

I'll also add a bit about "negative fans".
Negative fans wanted Alan Ball out, but there were plenty of happy-clappies who said "support the manager", and it was the same when Frank Clark lost the plot. It was also the same when Pearce gave us a season when we only scored ten goals at home.
You might not like the negative fans, and I agree those who are negative are jumping the gun a bit this season, but they have been shown to be right in the past.
Look at what we've achieved over the past few seasons and look at what we've spent since winning the cup in 2011. The owners will be looking for a return on that investment so why shouldn't the fans voice similar thoughts after poor performances such as Cardiff and Hull?
Obviously it's far too early to make changes and I don't think anybody is seriously suggesting we do, but even a mid-table team would expect better against sides that were in the Championship last season.

 

[taconinja]

I'll also add a bit about "negative fans".
Negative fans wanted Alan Ball out, but there were plenty of happy-clappies who said "support the manager", and it was the same when Frank Clark lost the plot. It was also the same when Pearce gave us a season when we only scored ten goals at home.
You might not like the negative fans, and I agree those who are negative are jumping the gun a bit this season, but they have been shown to be right in the past.
Look at what we've achieved over the past few seasons and look at what we've spent since winning the cup in 2011. The owners will be looking for a return on that investment so why shouldn't the fans voice similar thoughts after poor performances such as Cardiff and Hull?
Obviously it's far too early to make changes and I don't think anybody is seriously suggesting we do, but even a mid-table team would expect better against sides that were in the Championship last season.

Every single year fans say that on whatever messageboard for whatever club you happen to be on with early fixtures against promoted clubs. It's never been universally true, nor will it ever be. Sometimes they come up fighting as hard as they can. Usually they don't come up moping about how they're doomed. That's later in the season.