Good Humans vs Sh*t Humans...

I conked out on the sofa one night after City and came to about 3am. I felt four pressure points on my body and woke up to two eyes, a nose, ears and whiskas staring at me. Sleeping seemed to amaze her even if she slept for about 14 hours a day.
 
We need a mention of Mrs Slocombe's pussy to energise this discussion? Who remembers the name of her pussy?
 
Tiddles,I think most cats around that time had the same name.
Spot on!! Tiddles it most certainly was. I think that 9 out of 10 cats were called "Puss" back then and City had defenders who could defend. Richard Dunne looks the 'real deal' compared to the current crop of pretenders.
 
No, this is a silly response, especially in light of what the following sentence was. It's silly to say a meat eater cannot be an animal lover or have respect for them in the main. Eating fish or chicken does not equate to eating cats or dogs.

You can still have a connection with another lifeform that's not your own that you're not tempted to consume at convenience.

What's your opinion on intelligent life, like dolphins eating fish, but then protects whales from sharks and play with Humans??

Get a grip. Life and existence is complicated.
I respect your right to an opinion but I have to say that I don't find it to be following logic.

"Eating fish or chicken does not equate to eating cats or dogs."
Most people (in this country) would agree with you as clearly people eat the former but not the latter. But what is the basis for this view? The way I see it, they are all sentient creatures who want to live; they all feel pain; they all experience a wide range of emotions; they all want to live. I would genuinely like to know what is the basis for treating some animals badly but others well. Is it based on their level of intelligence? If so, why does intelligence give more rights? Could we apply this to humans and give more rights to those with higher intelligence and mistreat those with learning disabilities?

"You can still have a connection with another lifeform that's not your own that you're not tempted to consume at convenience."
So are the rights of animals dependent on their relationship to human beings? Why? What makes humans the factor in this? If I have a connection with another person or animal, why should that give them more rights than the one I don't have a connection with?

"It's silly to say a meat eater cannot be an animal lover or have respect for them in the main."
Is it respectful to keep an animal pregnant for most of its life then forceably separate its young and place it to live in a crate until it becomes so weak that its legs break beneath it (veal production) or to fill a large plastic bag with male chicks until they suffocate (male chicks are useless in the egg industry so are killed by suffocation or by being thrown live into a grinding machine), or to castrate piglets with a tool that looks like a pair of pliers - with no anaesthetic whatsoever etc. etc. That's just the tip of the iceberg; I could go on all day.

If someone pays for this to happen, I don't see how they can logically describe themselves as an 'animal lover.' Why not just be honest and say that you don't care about animals used for food?

"What's your opinion on intelligent life, like dolphins eating fish, but then protects whales from sharks and play with Humans??"
My take on it is that they are carnivores, driven by instinct. There is a wealth of evidence that humans, historically, are largely herbivorous, possibly scavenging small amounts of meat very occasionally. It's clear that we are healthier eating plants. BUT even if we were carnivores or even if you argue that we are omnivores, that's OK (there is a debate to be had but I guess that's a separate discussion) - but we can't reasonably describe ourselves as 'animal lovers' if we support the animal agriculture industry which systematically causes unimaginable suffering. The point is that all animals need to eat to live. If they have evolved to instinctively eat other creatures, it's horrible but unavoidable. However, doing so when is is avoidable is obviously the key difference. And we don't have to treat animals the way we do in animal agriculture; it's a choice based on profit to use intensive farming methods which involve disgusting welfare standards. Or we could just avoid it altogether, which leads to better health, a greatly improved environment and, of course, a way, way, way better deal for animals.

Surely it's better to just be honest and say, "I don't care about animals except when I emotionally benefit from it."
 
I respect your right to an opinion but I have to say that I don't find it to be following logic.

"Eating fish or chicken does not equate to eating cats or dogs."
Most people (in this country) would agree with you as clearly people eat the former but not the latter. But what is the basis for this view? The way I see it, they are all sentient creatures who want to live; they all feel pain; they all experience a wide range of emotions; they all want to live. I would genuinely like to know what is the basis for treating some animals badly but others well. Is it based on their level of intelligence? If so, why does intelligence give more rights? Could we apply this to humans and give more rights to those with higher intelligence and mistreat those with learning disabilities?

"You can still have a connection with another lifeform that's not your own that you're not tempted to consume at convenience."
So are the rights of animals dependent on their relationship to human beings? Why? What makes humans the factor in this? If I have a connection with another person or animal, why should that give them more rights than the one I don't have a connection with?

"It's silly to say a meat eater cannot be an animal lover or have respect for them in the main."
Is it respectful to keep an animal pregnant for most of its life then forceably separate its young and place it to live in a crate until it becomes so weak that its legs break beneath it (veal production) or to fill a large plastic bag with male chicks until they suffocate (male chicks are useless in the egg industry so are killed by suffocation or by being thrown live into a grinding machine), or to castrate piglets with a tool that looks like a pair of pliers - with no anaesthetic whatsoever etc. etc. That's just the tip of the iceberg; I could go on all day.

If someone pays for this to happen, I don't see how they can logically describe themselves as an 'animal lover.' Why not just be honest and say that you don't care about animals used for food?

"What's your opinion on intelligent life, like dolphins eating fish, but then protects whales from sharks and play with Humans??"
My take on it is that they are carnivores, driven by instinct. There is a wealth of evidence that humans, historically, are largely herbivorous, possibly scavenging small amounts of meat very occasionally. It's clear that we are healthier eating plants. BUT even if we were carnivores or even if you argue that we are omnivores, that's OK (there is a debate to be had but I guess that's a separate discussion) - but we can't reasonably describe ourselves as 'animal lovers' if we support the animal agriculture industry which systematically causes unimaginable suffering. The point is that all animals need to eat to live. If they have evolved to instinctively eat other creatures, it's horrible but unavoidable. However, doing so when is is avoidable is obviously the key difference. And we don't have to treat animals the way we do in animal agriculture; it's a choice based on profit to use intensive farming methods which involve disgusting welfare standards. Or we could just avoid it altogether, which leads to better health, a greatly improved environment and, of course, a way, way, way better deal for animals.

Surely it's better to just be honest and say, "I don't care about animals except when I emotionally benefit from it."
You have pitted a multitude of answers that are complicated and intertwining and none of them are wrong as is my viewpoint. We, as a species are complicated. If a person were racist towards me and I found the same person stabbed and suffering from that wound I'd think twice before making a decision to help or walk away. If I didn't have that information, I'd step in.

We hate each other, we love each other. We kill each other, we love each other. You can extrapolate opposites from those examples.

We eat all types of food sources. I'm pretty sure you will find someone who dotes on a goldfish eating a tuna sandwich. You'll find dog lovers and cat haters, cat lovers and dog haters.

I could get myopic, couldn't I? I mean, if and when you step on a slug or worm, do you stop to bury it? Say a prayer? Unlikely as you don't share a potential emotional connection. Same with a fly or a midge, etc.

Animal agriculture is a different subject, entirely and is not the thread to be holding this kind of discussion because people don't want to see avoidable suffering for a small abandoned life.

These discussions have been held aplenty, but as a species Humans have been eating meat for 2 million years.

From Huffpost 2013

See, the converse to your argument is overharvesting the land.When the quinoa explosion happened 4 years ago, farmers in Peru suddenly had to produce more than they were used to, to cover a bump in orders and their land couldn't cope

Basically, demand has far exceeded capacity for the normal rate at which the crop has been produced, ratcheting up its price and excluding the farmers themselves from being able to afford the praised pseudo-grain growing in their own backyards. This means cheaper, less healthy foods are increasingly prevalent in these farmers’ diets.

Most of the growers, living primarily in Peru and Bolivia, have recognized the potential for economic success with such a high-value product – but often to the expense of the environment.

The extra production has ecological and agricultural consequences, including soil erosion, decreasing soil fertility and increasing pest problems. Because the land must be worked all year round to meet demand, potential for desertification has increased as well.

This leads farmers to seek more and more land for quinoa production, which is unsustainable for continued increase in demand and detrimental to the region’s biodiversity and food security.
https://spoonuniversity.com/lifestyle/the-ethical-reason-why-you-should-stop-eating-quinoa (VPN may be needed)

So, as you can see, there are pluses and minuses to all things, but this point, it's not the thread to examine the discussion.
 
I have always captured spiders etc and let them outside.
However, since being in Florida i make exceptions for cockroaches.
At first I did let them out but they get back in bigger! And breed!
So a nice whack with a size 11 trainer is what they get.
 
what do cats actually do apart from shitting in my garden and leaving dead mice on the path
 

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