Gotze - signed for Bayern

pudge said:
Dortmund faced bankruptcy 8 years ago.

Now, they are producing record turnover.

They are run like a good business, and 37 million euros for one player in today's market, with FFP, is good feasable business

Are you actually suggesting that Dortmund are happy to cash in on Gotze this summer? Really??? Rather than try and convince you I'll ask one of our resident Germans to come here and inform us both how happy Dortmund will be to sell Gotze to Bayern this summer. Especially when they don't need the money and even if they did need the money they would probably sell any other player in the squad before Gotze, the diamond of their team. Plus Lewandowski will be leaving for big money anyway as he won't sign a new contract so any suggestions that they they'll happily sell Gotze to Bayern and exclaim "Good business!" as they hand the best young footballer in Germany to their rivals, effectively ending any hope of winning the Bundesliga next season, are ridiculous.

He is vital to their continuing success and progress in the Champions League (and the subsequent revenue which is worth tens of millions every season. So even if he is only worth £32million today (based on other transfers of young playmakers/attacking midfielders in today's market I believe he is already worth considerably more, especially considering his awesome potential - he is better than Hazard, Moura, and Willian) there is no way a club should be able to purchase him for that amount.
 
The situation for Götze was different last year than it was this year.

He had a good season in 10/11 and partly a good autumn 11/12 - but he was injured all of the rest of the season. It was this season he went another one or two steps up. If he would have transferred to Bayern for this season he could not have known if he already would have a starting place at Bayern. And actually Heynckes was never really called the coach that is great in developing young players. So a transfer last year - whereever - probably never was an option.

Now it is different. He is on another level than he was a year before. If for him Bayern is an option it is the right time to move. I do not think he can learn so much more at Dortmund and from his fellow players there - but there will be still a lot he can learn from some of the Bayern players. And for sure of Guardiola. And Bayern seems to be at the start of a new big period he might want to be part of.

A change into another country would be a lot more difficult right now. He might do it somewhen.
 
LoveCity said:
pudge said:
Dortmund faced bankruptcy 8 years ago.

Now, they are producing record turnover.

They are run like a good business, and 37 million euros for one player in today's market, with FFP, is good feasable business

Are you actually suggesting that Dortmund are happy to cash in on Gotze this summer? Really??? Rather than try and convince you I'll ask one of our resident Germans to come here and inform us both how happy Dortmund will be to sell Gotze to Bayern this summer. Especially when they don't need the money and even if they did need the money they would probably sell any other player in the squad before Gotze, the diamond of their team. Plus Lewandowski will be leaving for big money anyway as he won't sign a new contract so any suggestions that they they'll happily sell Gotze to Bayern and exclaim "Good business!" as they hand the best young footballer in Germany to their rivals, effectively ending any hope of winning the Bundesliga next season, are ridiculous.

He is vital to their continuing success and progress in the Champions League (and the subsequent revenue which is worth tens of millions every season. So even if he is only worth £32million today (based on other transfers of young playmakers/attacking midfielders in today's market I believe he is already worth considerably more, especially considering his awesome potential - he is better than Hazard, Moura, and Willian) there is no way a club should be able to purchase him for that amount.
I didn't say they were happy, did I?

I'm saying your initial comment of saying 37 million euros is "stupidly low" was unrealistic.
 
Gutted we won't see him in a City shirt but can't really blame the kid, he is Bavarian after all, would be getting coached by Guardiola and has picked up a healthy increase in income I am sure..

Want to know how the fans will treat him in the Semi Finals if this turns out to be true!
 
Bluesince93 said:
Gutted we won't see him in a City shirt but can't really blame the kid, he is Bavarian after all, would be getting coached by Guardiola and I am sure has picked up a healthy increase in income I am sure..

Want to know how the fans will treat him in the Semi Finals if this turns out to be true!
What about a Dortmund v Bayern final...
 
pudge said:
Bluesince93 said:
Want to know how the fans will treat him in the Semi Finals if this turns out to be true!
What about a Dortmund v Bayern final...

Didn't think of that haha! Pre Match press conferences are going to be as interesting as the games themselves..
 
I'm saying you're initial comment of saying 37 million euros is "stupidly low" was unrealistic.

It is stupidly low when you consider the impact it could and probably will have on Dortmund in the long run.

So they pocket that £32million and lose Gotze. You can't simply replace a player like that with Dortmund's model where they will not go out and buy a superstar because of their club model. The gap between Dortmund and the teams below is not that huge. Schalke for example could easily bounce back next season and reclaim 2nd spot, they have a very good squad and a few good signings could move them from 4th to 2nd (no one is going to challenge Bayern for 1st now). So weakening the squad for the quick cash (that they don't even need) could cost them Champions League football and the revenues that come with it (Bundesliga still only has 3 CL spots too).

And if Dortmund do lose that revenue, what will the £32million for Gotze mean in the big picture? Think Arsenal and their cashing in on Van Persie in the scenario where they finish 5th... was it all worth it considering the gigantic revenue they will lose from missing out on the Champions League (and the knock-on effect that can have... ie. attracting players, players already at the club wanting to leave)? Selling your best players is always a recipe for disaster, especially when a). you are under no pressure to, and b). your financial structure makes effectively replacing the player extremely difficult.

It's like if we sold Silva but had a club model and wage structure where we couldn't go out and replace him with a high profile name like Ozil... we'd have to search the Dutch league, the Polish league, the German league for someone talented, chances are we would accept someone inferior to him and the quality of the team and subsequent success suffers as a result. We might get a lot of money but the damage on the squad and our ambitions would be telling.

Dortmund are financially healthy and a mile away from having to worry about FFP - there is no pressing need to sell anyone, and when you don't need to sell anyone getting £32million for Gotze is "stupidly low" in my eyes. Now if Dortmund were financially crippled that would be another story. And again even if they did have to sell they have high value assets like Lewandowski, Gundogan, Reus, Hummels, and Subotic who would be sold off before Gotze. Gotze is already the icon of that team, you could not ask for a more perfect poster boy to represent your club having come from the academy. This will hurt them badly.

You buy the potential as much as the existing talent nowadays and that's why Gotze is worth more than £32million already and would fetch it - like Neymar (who has yet to prove himself in Europe) will. Wait and see how much Bale goes for if he is sold, far more than he is worth of course, and Gotze is every bit as good and already showing it at Champions League level too.

And with that I head to bed as I can't add anything else to my argument...
 
LoveCity said:
I'm saying you're initial comment of saying 37 million euros is "stupidly low" was unrealistic.

It is stupidly low when you consider the impact it could and probably will have on Dortmund in the long run.

So they pocket that £32million and lose Gotze. You can't simply replace a player like that with Dortmund's model where they will not go out and buy a superstar because of their club model. The gap between Dortmund and the teams below is not that huge. Schalke for example could easily bounce back next season and reclaim 2nd spot, they have a very good squad and a few good signings could move them from 4th to 2nd (no one is going to challenge Bayern for 1st now). So weakening the squad for the quick cash (that they don't even need) could cost them Champions League football and the revenues that come with it (Bundesliga still only has 3 CL spots too).

And if Dortmund do lose that revenue, what will the £32million for Gotze mean in the big picture? Think Arsenal and their cashing in on Van Persie in the scenario where they finish 5th... was it all worth it considering the gigantic revenue they will lose from missing out on the Champions League (and the knock-on effect that can have... ie. attracting players, players already at the club wanting to leave)? Selling your best players is always a recipe for disaster, especially when a). you are under no pressure to, and b). your financial structure makes effectively replacing the player extremely difficult.

It's like if we sold Silva but had a club model and wage structure where we couldn't go out and replace him with a high profile name like Ozil... we'd have to search the Dutch league, the Polish league, the German league for someone talented, chances are we would accept someone inferior to him and the quality of the team and subsequent success suffers as a result. We might get a lot of money but the damage on the squad and our ambitions would be telling.

Dortmund are financially healthy and a mile away from having to worry about FFP - there is no pressing need to sell anyone, and when you don't need to sell anyone getting £32million for Gotze is "stupidly low" in my eyes. Now if Dortmund were financially crippled that would be another story. And again even if they did have to sell they have high value assets like Lewandowski, Gundogan, Reus, Hummels, and Subotic who would be sold off before Gotze. Gotze is already the icon of that team, you could not ask for a more perfect poster boy to represent your club having come from the academy. This will hurt them badly.

You buy the potential as much as the existing talent nowadays and that's why Gotze is worth more than £32million already and would fetch it - like Neymar (who has yet to prove himself in Europe) will. Wait and see how much Bale goes for if he is sold, far more than he is worth of course, and Gotze is every bit as good and already showing it at Champions League level too.

And with that I head to bed as I can't add anything else to my argument...
You mention Dortmund's club model a few times, therein lies a lot of reasoning to this deal. Invest in youth, develop their players and sell on for a profit.

Also, RVP and Arsenal were a completely different scenario. There was no buy-out fee and RVP made it clear that he wanted to leave. Arsenal got £20 million for 29 year old striker who publicly stated his desire to move on.

The deal is not solely down to Dortmund, Gotze has obviously had his head turned. So hypothetically speaking say Dortmund did slap a Barca type buy-out clause in his contract but he said he wanted to move to Bayern.

How much would the fee be then? Given the likes of Hazard went for £32 million I wouldn't be shocked if he went for what he has done now.
 
What I like about Bayern is that they buy quality not quantity. ( Martinez & Gotze) for example.
 
right does that mean Eriksen is a good enough 2nd after Goetze?

nostradamus will certainly not be on this forum because this has just fired back in his face!
 

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