Grenfell Tower block disaster

Fame Monster said:
So is this finding a result of the fire brigade telling people to 'stay put'? In which case, I think I'd agree that they have to take some of the blame. What's the average response time for the fire brigade to respond to a call? 15/20 minutes? Surely that's enough for 90% of people to leave the building. I get that blocks and crushes happen when people are rushing to get out but telling people to leave promptly and orderly seems to me to be far better advice than 'staying put'.
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The advice to stay put is usually to avoid the fire spreading further I think. In a properly fireproofed building the advice to stay put is apparently correct, but this one wasn't. Whether the fire brigade are supposed to know this and advise accordingly I don't know, but it would seem that the very existence of a building where that advice is necessary is the main problem.
 
Hoghead said:
Why don't you wait until the 1st part of the enquiry is out in full before you start blaming who you think and want to be held accountable.
Burning books and all that.
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Fair point but you have to question in that case why has a certain amount of it been revealed to the media? Who benefits?
 
Rascal said:
Prior to Grenfell

Johnson closed 10 London fire stations
Cut 27 London fore engines
Laid off 552 London firefighters

He ignored the LFEPA and 94% of Londoners wishes in doing this.

When challenged on this he answer was "get stuffed"

This is a cover up designed to exonerate Johnson.
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Rascal said:
Why aren't the Tory run local council being held to account for putting that cladding on Grenfell? They put money before people.

Kensington and Chelsea council had £274m in reserves but refused to put sprinklers in the towers.

Absolutley fucking disgraceful and a stitch up of honest brave fireman to cover others arses.
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Jesus does EVERYTHING you post have to have an anti-Tory spin on it FFS? Why didn't you just say "council"?

At a time like this instead of thinking about the poor sods who lost their lives and the countless people - including the poor firefighters scarred by this - all you can think of is scoring cheap political points. That is odious mate, it really is.
 
Rascal said:
Prior to Grenfell
Johnson closed 10 London fire stations
Cut 27 London fore engines
Laid off 552 London firefighters
He ignored the LFEPA and 94% of Londoners wishes in doing this.

When challenged on this he answer was "get stuffed"

This is a cover up designed to exonerate Johnson.
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really? I thought the Grenfell enquiry was about making sure the same mistakes aren't repeated?
 
Chippy_boy said:
Jesus does EVERYTHING you post have to have an anti-Tory spin on it FFS? Why didn't you just say "council"?

At a time like this instead of thinking about the poor sods who lost their lives and the countless people - including the poor firefighters scarred by this - all you can think of is scoring cheap political points. That is odious mate, it really is.
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Theresa May already lied and tried to blame Labour policy for it. (Sorry, not lied - just didn't tell the truth.)
 
Chippy_boy said:
Jesus does EVERYTHING you post have to have an anti-Tory spin on it FFS? Why didn't you just say "council"?

At a time like this instead of thinking about the poor sods who lost their lives and the countless people - including the poor firefighters scarred by this - all you can think of is scoring cheap political points. That is odious mate, it really is.
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Most people can think of both at the same time
 
karen7 said:
The emergency services always get the blame,they are the ones who run into danger not the soft cunts who stand in judgement of them
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True but telling people to stay put in a burning tower block for 2 hours seems slightly counter intuitive to my untrained brain i have to say.
 
blueinsa said:
True but telling people to stay put in a burning tower block for 2 hours seems slightly counter intuitive to my untrained brain i have to say.
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The same advice was given to the people in the twin towers,myself i would be outta there but there must be a reason they go with the stay advice
 
karen7 said:
The same advice was given to the people in the twin towers,myself i would be outta there but there must be a reason they go with the stay advice
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Me too karen.

Fire, you get out by the nearest exit its that simple and within minutes it was clear that fire was out of control and a major threat to life so the advice was questionable and thats me being kind.
 
karen7 said:
The emergency services always get the blame,they are the ones who run into danger not the soft cunts who stand in judgement of them
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Well I can agree with you on this point at least. It's not like they were anything other than best intentioned, and putting their own lives on the line. I have no issue with lessons being learned, but I do have issue with persecution of people doing their utmost to help others.
 
blueinsa said:
Me too karen.

Fire, you get out by the nearest exit its that simple and within minutes it was clear that fire was out of control and a major threat to life so the advice was questionable and thats me being kind.
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I wonder how much the radio's not working played a big part on the day,it was a massive issue on 9/11 and i seem to recall it being mentioned here at the time,the bosses take the decisions and the guys in there take their orders from them,communications must be a nightmare during a fire
 
Chippy_boy said:
Well I can agree with you on this point at least. It's not like they were anything other than best intentioned, and putting their own lives on the line. I have no issue with lessons being learned, but I do have issue with persecution of people doing their utmost to help others.
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Yep the guys on the ground should never be blamed in any way
 
karen7 said:
The same advice was given to the people in the twin towers,myself i would be outta there but there must be a reason they go with the stay advice
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Because if the compartment theory works the flat is safe and if they leave people may have to go down stairways into smoke, meeting firefighters coming up and possibly with hoses as trip hazards.

The issue here is when LFB should have realised the building was gone and "stay put" was no longer good advice (especially when control was so overloaded that calls from Grenfell were being taken in Cheshire by staff with little idea of how the flames were engulfing the building).
 
I think it's in poor taste to make political points out of a tragedy, but the decision to 'leak' only the chapter of this report that apportions blame to the fire brigade is clearly a dead cat being chucked on the table. There has even been a fair bit of press about blame being apportioned to hotpoint whose faulty appliance was the ignition source. The effect of this is clearly to set the news agenda and public perception prior to the release of the inquiries thoughts about those that took the decision to breach building regs and clad the building in what was essentially a giant external wick.
 
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