Grooming gang scandal

Marklr said:
Another inquiry is just to please the raging racists. It's all hot air. They insist on another inquiry but they don't really want it. They just want to justify their hatred.
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Another with his finger on the pulse of public and political opinion.

Has the last 24 hours literally passed you by?
 
Hertzblue said:
The difference is ..
You show me that and I say that the perpertrators should all be locked up and so should that enabling **** Justin Welby. That will be my first thought
I show you a Pakistani grooming gang , you will say ' what about the white grooming gangs, the church " whatever.That will be your first thought . As you have demonstrated previously.

As we both know you are not slow imply a bit of racism or bigotry.

You have previously said that there has been no cover up on Pakistani grooming gangs.

Is that still your opinion ?
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Have I ?
 
Hertzblue said:
The Jay report did look at all grooming gangs and did its best to downplay the role of ethnicity - that is where the dishonesty lies and why we now need another enquiry .
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If ethnicity was not an issue then it is right to downplay it.
If ethnicity was an issue then it is wrong to downplay it.

I mentioned working in Rochdale earlier. It was, when I was there and probably still is, an area of social deprivation. It was an area with low quality housing, education, high levels of teenage pregnancy, drug and alcohol dependency. All of those factors make young women vulnerable. I also worked in many socially deprived areas of the North West including Harpurhey, Burnley, Oldham, Toxteth, Birkenhead, etc.

In addition to proper investigation and conviction of groomers, dealing with the social deprivation so prevalent in parts of the country will make an enormous impact.
 
KS55 said:
That’s no answer. What experience precisely brought you to this conclusion which is the opposite of the Casey report?
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Talking and meeting people. The report doesn't tell you about how people hate Muslims already and will jump on any bandwagon to justify their hatred. Are you trying to tell me it's not true?
I'm guessing you believe Tommy Robinson and mates really care about those abused children?
 
Marklr said:
Talking and meeting people. The report doesn't tell you about how people hate Muslims already and will jump on any bandwagon to justify their hatred. Are you trying to tell me it's not true?
I'm guessing you believe Tommy Robinson and mates really care about those abused children?
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So I guess people who were angry at Saville/BBC were just jumping on the bandwagon to justify their hatred of the BBC?
 
Ohrodneyrodney said:
So I guess people who were angry at Saville/BBC were just jumping on the bandwagon to justify their hatred of the BBC?
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That doesn't make any sense. I'm talking about the Muslim thing. The usual racist use it to justify their hatred. The same people are nowhere when it's not related to non-whites.
 
Marklr said:
That doesn't make any sense. I'm talking about the Muslim thing. The usual racist use it to justify their hatred. The same people are nowhere when it's not related to non-whites.
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Can’t you see that people might be angry that abusers weren’t brought to justice, simply because authorities were so afraid of offending?
 
Marklr said:
Talking and meeting people. The report doesn't tell you about how people hate Muslims already and will jump on any bandwagon to justify their hatred. Are you trying to tell me it's not true?
I'm guessing you believe Tommy Robinson and mates really care about those abused children?
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No, this is your problem, you jump to conclusions which justify your position.
I’m not gainsaying what you say about Muslim haters but it is just not that simple. I have had many Muslim friends and colleagues over the years but it is clear to me that some British Muslims have social attitudes which are quite old fashioned. So, for example, the journo who investigated the London Transport bombings could not find any Muslim in Leeds to condemn them unequivocally, there was always a thin gloss of justification.
A weird example: a Muslim friend was convinced that MI5 killed Diana to stop the royal family containing a Muslim. I pointed out that Diana was no longer a member of that family but he directed me to the internet conspiracy theories as proof! This guy was a highly educated ENT surgeon.
Casey identified my area as Muslims of Pakistani origin being over represented in the total perpetrators. The question is why? You can’t just say it’s not true and the product of hatred.
PS EDIT. As the grandfather of an Anglo-Indian you would not expect me to have much truck with the likes of Tommy Robinson, but according to you I think they care about the abused kids. News to me, thanks.
 
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Ohrodneyrodney said:
Can’t you see that people might be angry that abusers weren’t brought to justice, simply because authorities were so afraid of offending?
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My suspicion is that the people most angry about this would not have been so angry if the perpetrators were white/Christian. I absolutely know people for whom this absolutely applies. They are racist and unfortunately seek out any and all examples of what they perceive as favourable treatment for non-Brits, which is pretty much anyone who is not fair skinned. They will also ignore this, yet they have marched among them.


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We are all aware that paedophiles exist in all walks of society and the people preyed upon are, generally, already vulnerable. From royals visiting children's homes, to kebab shop owners giving gifts to girls out alone late having 'escaped' from care, to these guys above 'recruiting' the vulnerable into their dodgy politics, and more.
Any paedophile needs to be investigated, tried, and sentenced without fear nor favour. Aetheist, Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Jain, Buddhist, Rasta...it matters not. Royal paedophiles are especially welcome to be prosectuted and sentenced though (in my book).
 
Marklr said:
The point is...if you're so concerned about grooming gangs, then you should include ALL..no matter what race and religion. The recent outrage is aimed at one group of people only.
Don't twist it, mate...it's just dishonest.
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The full report and recommendations only came out yesterday. Of course that’s what people are going to focus on. And of course all rapists should be locked up for life, no matter their background.

However its one of the biggest scandals of the last twenty years and the majority of the abuse was carried out by one particular group. Its a fact and shown in the Casey report.

Theres not point in ignoring it. That’s exactly what the authorities did when all of these girls were being abused. Ethnicity played a huge part in why it happened.

We need to look at the patterns, ethnicity stats and put in proper prevention methods to stop it from happening. The Casey report literally recommends it.

Political points scoring and shouting out racism doesn’t help anyone, as shown over the last 20 years, most importantly the victims.
 
oldius said:
For @hilts and in response to your point. This is from my earlier post today.

Unfortunately, in the case of the Rochdale and Rotherham groomers, justice was also, seemingly, obscured by racial and religious factors. This is EXACTLY why racism is so poisonous when it comes to justice - it ignores facts; it attributes suspicion; it ignores evidence; it creates anger; and it creates fear in the eyes of investigators where they should only be concerned with evidence and conviction.


I worked in Rochdale and saw vulnerable women out on the street. Many of the businesses open late were Asian owned. In nearly all of the cases I saw, the women out alone were white. This was twenty years ago and I didn't really think too much of it. Of course, as I am older I realise that these women, and girls, were easy prey. That is just a fact. If this inquiry throws up procedural failings because of religion and race then that should be identified. My point is really clear that race and religion should NEVER be a barrier to the investigation and conviction of paedophiles.
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Anyone who thinks race is the only reason for covering up abuse in Rochdale or anywhere else has a short memory.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

Establishment knew Cyril Smith was abusing children but covered it up - inquiry

A scathing report by the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse has concluded the former Rochdale MP and others were allowed to get away with it, in order to avoid reputational damage
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
The full report and recommendations only came out yesterday. Of course that’s what people are going to focus on. And of course all rapists should be locked up for life, no matter their background.

However its one of the biggest scandals of the last twenty years and the majority of the abuse was carried out by one particular group. Its a fact and shown in the Casey report.

Theres not point in ignoring it. That’s exactly what the authorities did when all of these girls were being abused. Ethnicity played a huge part in why it happened.

We need to look at the patterns, ethnicity stats and put in proper prevention methods to stop it from happening. The Casey report literally recommends it.

Political points scoring and shouting out racism doesn’t help anyone, as shown over the last 20 years, most importantly the victims.
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It's the racist that are using this issue to confirm their hatred...that's the point I'm making. And there are may of them. The right wing are using it as a tool to attack muslims.
 
KS55 said:
No, this is your problem, you jump to conclusions which justify your position.
I’m not gainsaying what you say about Muslim haters but it is just not that simple. I have had many Muslim friends and colleagues over the years but it is clear to me that some British Muslims have social attitudes which are quite old fashioned. So, for example, the journo who investigated the London Transport bombings could not find any Muslim in Leeds to condemn them unequivocally, there was always a thin gloss of justification.
A weird example: a Muslim friend was convinced that MI5 killed Diana to stop the royal family containing a Muslim. I pointed out that Diana was no longer a member of that family but he directed me to the internet conspiracy theories as proof! This guy was a highly educated ENT surgeon.
Casey identified my area as Muslims of Pakistani origin being over represented in the total perpetrators. The question is why? You can’t just say it’s not true and the product of hatred.
PS EDIT. As the grandfather of an Anglo-Indian you would not expect me to have much truck with the likes of Tommy Robinson, but according to you I think they care about the abused kids. News to me, thanks.
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Why are people so obsessed with Muslims? You don't get that same standard applied anywhere else.
 
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