High line and pressing

[cibaman]

Frankly, it's complete bollocks. The one thing that has worked with our team is the defence. Doesn't need fixing. Ain't broken. Leave it alone. Best defence in the PL for the last two seasons. Don't fix what ain't broken. Concentrate on what we don't do well. Breaking teams down. We've signed the players to do that. Why mess with the best defence in England? This will cost us, until we realise there is no need to mess with it. Just concentrate on the areas we weren't so good in. Teams worse than Arsenal will catch us out if we play this unnecessary tactic.

It would be nice to have last year's defense but with a different way of attacking. But the way we defended last year affected, to same extent, the way we attacked and vice versa. If we are to become more effective in attack its inevitable that the we will have to modify the way we defend.

 

[Chippy_boy]

A little part of me dies every time I read "Mancini got sacked for finishing 2nd". To be so misinformed about the club you support doesn't seem right to me.

So you think Mancini would have got sacked for finishing 1st? I think more than a little part of you has died.

OT, I know but since you asked. I think yes he might well have been sacked even if we had won the league. It would have made doing so more difficult for the board for sure, but I wouldn't have ruled it out. Didn't he get sacked at Inter having won the league? Can't remember, but I think he did.

Now back on topic...

I agree that the high line stuff is not about trying to fix a defence, that as many have said, is not broken. It's about being more effective in attack.

And I have to say, we do need to be more effective in attack. Last season, we scored too few goals and too often we struggled to break down teams with 11 men behind the ball. Fast, pacey winger(s) is only going to help to a degree and is not enough of a change on it's own.

 

[OB1]

I mentioned in another thread that you dont play your full pressing game in friendlies. It is a complete waste of energy at a time when the training is much more physically draining as the players prepare.

It will be now that training drops off to the usual (standard tapering programme), and the players go into the season feeling the benefits of the 6 weeks of hard work. So yes, the players will be feeling tired at the moment. Thats kind of the point.

That said, id be surprised if we start with Dzeko/Negredo much. The game we are trying to play isnt going to work with both of them and Yaya in a 2 man midfield. 433 makes miles more sense. You could put Silva in the middle with Fern and Yaya just to provide that extra body to close down angles and players - Silva is quality at that.

That's far too sensible;)

4-3-3 as you describe it is just what I am hoping for.

My understanding of Pellers is that he likes to rely on his players using their intelligence in games and maybe Yaya and Fern have to work out an understanding on when one should drop back whilst the other has a bomb forward.

 

[Anonymous]

Think this thread is worth a bump. My view was that from minute one we played with the same high line and pressing as we employed for most of pre season. Couple of times very early on Newcastle threatened to break on us, but it was telling how decisive all four of our defenders were in terms of shutting their players down. It's a risky tactic for sure because if you lose a 50/50, there's an awful lot of space in behind, and with Lescott our deepest defender, not much pace there. However last night at least it looked like we were ready for it.

I think as the season progresses and the players become even more familiar with what is required in terms of intensity to make the high line work, it'll seem less risky.

The pressing that we did was unbelievable at times. Navas in particular impressed the hell out of me. I think there was an element of 'home debut' in some of his energy, but fuck me he seemed to be as good defensively as he was attacking wise.

As first steps go in implementing these two particular character traits into our game, I thought it was a resounding success. And as I say, once the players really get a feel for what's required we're going to be unstoppable IMO.

 

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

Think this thread is worth a bump. My view was that from minute one we played with the same high line and pressing as we employed for most of pre season. Couple of times very early on Newcastle threatened to break on us, but it was telling how decisive all four of our defenders were in terms of shutting their players down. It's a risky tactic for sure because if you lose a 50/50, there's an awful lot of space in behind, and with Lescott our deepest defender, not much pace there. However last night at least it looked like we were ready for it.

I think as the season progresses and the players become even more familiar with what is required in terms of intensity to make the high line work, it'll seem less risky.

The pressing that we did was unbelievable at times. Navas in particular impressed the hell out of me. I think there was an element of 'home debut' in some of his energy, but fuck me he seemed to be as good defensively as he was attacking wise.

As first steps go in implementing these two particular character traits into our game, I thought it was a resounding success. And as I say, once the players really get a feel for what's required we're going to be unstoppable IMO.

Agree with that mate, very encouraging for our first real game, the '6 second' rule was in effect and it is devastating if employed correctly. Newcastle had 3 touches in our box, shows how effective it was. I also think Fernandinho is going to be a far better defensive screen for the back 4 than Barry or Garcia (or even Barry and Garcia together!!)

What impressed me about Navas was he looked just as lively at the end as the start, i've brought him into my fantasy team on the back of that, the only question mark would be if he would settle given his well documented problems, but that was an electric start.

 

[Rösler von Stretfordbömber]

Agree emphatically with the previous two posts. Navas impressed me at both ends from the first instant onward. Fernand was utterly disruptive every time the bar codes got into possession. (Overlooked, apparently, by that twat Tyler and his partner in rag-fellating up in the booth - multiple times they seemed to be slagging him for not passing aggressively enough. Or something.)

For as much as people carped on the high line during pre-season ("oh, Lescott could never have the pace for this!") the critical issue I think is how much the more forward players help. You'd see the bar codes get possession and then immediately Navas and Fernand are terrorising them. Makes it much easier to play with a slower guy like Lescott in back when this happens.

 

[Anonymous]

Agree emphatically with the previous two posts. Navas impressed me at both ends from the first instant onward. Fernand was utterly disruptive every time the bar codes got into possession. (Overlooked, apparently, by that twat Tyler and his partner in rag-fellating up in the booth - multiple times they seemed to be slagging him for not passing aggressively enough. Or something.)

For as much as people carped on the high line during pre-season ("oh, Lescott could never have the pace for this!") the critical issue I think is how much the more forward players help. You'd see the bar codes get possession and then immediately Navas and Fernand are terrorising them. Makes it much easier to play with a slower guy like Lescott in back when this happens.

I was delighted for Lescott last night. For over a year now he's been the whipping boy of the back 4. For me he's not quite world class, but certainly good enough to be a regular first choice starter for us, particularly in the premier league. What he lacks in pace, he makes up for in strength and positioning.

The truth is whether it's Vinny or Lescott, it doesn't matter, playing with a highline like that and having the defenders pressing right into the oppositions half will always come with risks attached and you will ship the occasional goal because of it. Just look at the mighty Barcelona. They keep very few clean sheets.

 

[taconinja]

Agree emphatically with the previous two posts. Navas impressed me at both ends from the first instant onward. Fernand was utterly disruptive every time the bar codes got into possession. (Overlooked, apparently, by that twat Tyler and his partner in rag-fellating up in the booth - multiple times they seemed to be slagging him for not passing aggressively enough. Or something.)

For as much as people carped on the high line during pre-season ("oh, Lescott could never have the pace for this!") the critical issue I think is how much the more forward players help. You'd see the bar codes get possession and then immediately Navas and Fernand are terrorising them. Makes it much easier to play with a slower guy like Lescott in back when this happens.

I was delighted for Lescott last night. For over a year now he's been the whipping boy of the back 4. For me he's not quite world class, but certainly good enough to be a regular first choice starter for us, particularly in the premier league. What he lacks in pace, he makes up for in strength and positioning.

The truth is whether it's Vinny or Lescott, it doesn't matter, playing with a highline like that and having the defenders pressing right into the oppositions half will always come with risks attached and you will ship the occasional goal because of it. Just look at the mighty Barcelona. They keep very few clean sheets.

I'm going to disagree. The only moments we looked in danger were due to the opposition understanding that if they could force us to pass the ball to Lescott, they had a chance to do damage or at least regain possession. It nearly worked at times, too. That said, he performed well for the most part especially in his tackling. I think it's fair to say he was both positive and negative last night with the positives very much outweighing the negatives. Still I prefer Nastasic once he's healthy.

As for pressing, it really only works if the forwards buy in and harry their keeper and back line. They did that wonderfully. Supreme effort by the entire squad.

 

[Shaelumstash]

Think this thread is worth a bump. My view was that from minute one we played with the same high line and pressing as we employed for most of pre season. Couple of times very early on Newcastle threatened to break on us, but it was telling how decisive all four of our defenders were in terms of shutting their players down. It's a risky tactic for sure because if you lose a 50/50, there's an awful lot of space in behind, and with Lescott our deepest defender, not much pace there. However last night at least it looked like we were ready for it.

I think as the season progresses and the players become even more familiar with what is required in terms of intensity to make the high line work, it'll seem less risky.

The pressing that we did was unbelievable at times. Navas in particular impressed the hell out of me. I think there was an element of 'home debut' in some of his energy, but fuck me he seemed to be as good defensively as he was attacking wise.

As first steps go in implementing these two particular character traits into our game, I thought it was a resounding success. And as I say, once the players really get a feel for what's required we're going to be unstoppable IMO.

Agree with that mate, very encouraging for our first real game, the '6 second' rule was in effect and it is devastating if employed correctly. Newcastle had 3 touches in our box, shows how effective it was. I also think Fernandinho is going to be a far better defensive screen for the back 4 than Barry or Garcia (or even Barry and Garcia together!!)

What impressed me about Navas was he looked just as lively at the end as the start, i've brought him into my fantasy team on the back of that, the only question mark would be if he would settle given his well documented problems, but that was an electric start.

The most noticeable difference last night was how quickly we closed Newcastle down in their half. Our midfielders and forward players all worked really hard to press and win the ball back as quickly as possible. The back 4 didn't actually play noticeably higher than for much of last season.

If you look at the AC Milan pre season game, and the second game in South Africa, the back 4 were all pushed right up to the half way line and we got caught in behind on many occasions. Against Newcastle the line was 20 yards deeper than that, very similar to home games last season.

 

[taconinja]

Think this thread is worth a bump. My view was that from minute one we played with the same high line and pressing as we employed for most of pre season. Couple of times very early on Newcastle threatened to break on us, but it was telling how decisive all four of our defenders were in terms of shutting their players down. It's a risky tactic for sure because if you lose a 50/50, there's an awful lot of space in behind, and with Lescott our deepest defender, not much pace there. However last night at least it looked like we were ready for it.

I think as the season progresses and the players become even more familiar with what is required in terms of intensity to make the high line work, it'll seem less risky.

The pressing that we did was unbelievable at times. Navas in particular impressed the hell out of me. I think there was an element of 'home debut' in some of his energy, but fuck me he seemed to be as good defensively as he was attacking wise.

As first steps go in implementing these two particular character traits into our game, I thought it was a resounding success. And as I say, once the players really get a feel for what's required we're going to be unstoppable IMO.

Agree with that mate, very encouraging for our first real game, the '6 second' rule was in effect and it is devastating if employed correctly. Newcastle had 3 touches in our box, shows how effective it was. I also think Fernandinho is going to be a far better defensive screen for the back 4 than Barry or Garcia (or even Barry and Garcia together!!)

What impressed me about Navas was he looked just as lively at the end as the start, i've brought him into my fantasy team on the back of that, the only question mark would be if he would settle given his well documented problems, but that was an electric start.

The most noticeable difference last night was how quickly we closed Newcastle down in their half. Our midfielders and forward players all worked really hard to press and win the ball back as quickly as possible. The back 4 didn't actually play noticeably higher than for much of last season.

If you look at the AC Milan pre season game, and the second game in South Africa, the back 4 were all pushed right up to the half way line and we got caught in behind on many occasions. Against Newcastle the line was 20 yards deeper than that, very similar to home games last season.

I noticed that Kompany was often close to the halfway line starting out, but Lescott played deeper, which was fine. Quite sensible really.