Holistic approach

[Shaelumstash]

I doubt the rumours about playing 433 are true. The are ridiculous and the link is only being made because Barcelona play it. Any idiot can see a manager is in charge of the team and tactics not the board.

Any idiot can see the manager should be in charge of tactics and not the board.

I think the level of Txiki's power and influence over all aspects of football at the club is far beyond anything we have seen before from a Director of Football in England.

So Guardiola was a puppet at Barca then ?

Everyone has seen them slip from admittedly their own lofty standards not just due to Guardiola leaving.


It is simply a different way of running a first team squad.
Soriano and Berigistain will look at all aspects and what was needed to effect the next few years of advancement, which leads me nicely to my my next point...

Regarding your post about Mancini not wanting to be the puppet of Berigistain.
They had no issue from what we all know.
When Mancini had a go at stuff not being done as good as he wanted in december that pissed of the Sheikh a bit.
Come to January and Berigistain or Soriano pictured talking to Pelligrini's agent in Spain, coincidence ?

Basically it was an amalgamation of issues not Mancini refusing to be a 'puppet'.
If it had of been an issue for Mancini he would have quit the second he knew about the hiring of these chaps as he is a proud man.


Continue to be disgusted at assumptions though if you must.

No, Guadiola was not a puppet. As I pointed out earlier, the 433 system is ingrained in Barcelona, and has been for over 30 years. Txiki did not set this agenda and force Pep in to it. That structure was in place long before either had anything to do with the club.

I agree, it is a different way of running a first team squad. It is one I disagree with. I think in England it works better if the manager chooses the system and the players as opposed to the DoF. I don't think I'm alone in that thought.

I come back to this article where Mancini was asked about Txiki's reported plans to change the whole club to playing 433. I personally think this is part of the "Holistic approach" the club refers to in it's press release.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/roberto-mancini-says-he-shares-football-1242206" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... ll-1242206</a>

 

[TCIB]

He would fuck. Nobody quits when getting sacked brings you 7-8 millions.

If he was so proud he would quit when he didn't get another set of world stars he wanted and wouldn't moan about it whole season.

When they negotiated his 5 year deal do you think they did not have plans to employ Soriano and Berigistain and develop a more continental management model ?.
More than that, not tell Mancini ?

I'm not referring to that, of course he knew that and of course he agreed to that.

I'm referring to "he'd quit, he is proud man" line. He would never quit, he had a chance to quit when he didn't get players he wanted but opted to not do it and instead moan whole year about it until he got sacked and banked a nice settlement. I'd do the same but let's not go with that St. proud bobby stuff, there's no arguments for that at all.

Managers don't resign these days, managers wait to get sacked and cash settlement clauses. Mancini is not a bit different than all of others.

I think Mancini would have said 'Thanks but no thanks i don't like the idea of that management style' and parted ways then.
That is the issue i am talking about, if he could work with Begiristain or feel like a puppet.
The poster i was replying to seems to think Mancini was seemingly duped with the new heirachy and delt a bad hand and was essentially fired due to this.
I feel this was not even an issue for Mancini let alone the sole reason for him going.

 

[dctid]

Any idiot can see the manager should be in charge of tactics and not the board.

I think the level of Txiki's power and influence over all aspects of football at the club is far beyond anything we have seen before from a Director of Football in England.

So Guardiola was a puppet at Barca then ?

Everyone has seen them slip from admittedly their own lofty standards not just due to Guardiola leaving.


It is simply a different way of running a first team squad.
Soriano and Berigistain will look at all aspects and what was needed to effect the next few years of advancement, which leads me nicely to my my next point...

Regarding your post about Mancini not wanting to be the puppet of Berigistain.
They had no issue from what we all know.
When Mancini had a go at stuff not being done as good as he wanted in december that pissed of the Sheikh a bit.
Come to January and Berigistain or Soriano pictured talking to Pelligrini's agent in Spain, coincidence ?

Basically it was an amalgamation of issues not Mancini refusing to be a 'puppet'.
If it had of been an issue for Mancini he would have quit the second he knew about the hiring of these chaps as he is a proud man.


Continue to be disgusted at assumptions though if you must.

No, Guadiola was not a puppet. As I pointed out earlier, the 433 system is ingrained in Barcelona, and has been for over 30 years. Txiki did not set this agenda and force Pep in to it. That structure was in place long before either had anything to do with the club.

I agree, it is a different way of running a first team squad. It is one I disagree with. I think in England it works better if the manager chooses the system and the players as opposed to the DoF. I don't think I'm alone in that thought.

I come back to this article where Mancini was asked about Txiki's reported plans to change the whole club to playing 433. I personally think this is part of the "Holistic approach" the club refers to in it's press release.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/roberto-mancini-says-he-shares-football-1242206" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... ll-1242206</a>

the 433 system is ingrained in Barcelona, and has been for over 30 years

I think that this is one aspect of a holistic approach

 

[Shaelumstash]

You`ve done fuck all but moan for days,starting thread after thread,basically with the same content of slagging off any fucker within the club apart from Mancini.
Your getting just like thrush.

Thread after thread? You mean 2 threads? One was about the PR disaster that the club was about to commit, and on all of the various Mancini, Vicky Kloss, Ferran / Txiki etc threads, I'd probably estimate 50% of the posts were people saying exactly the same thing as I did on Friday night. PR Disaster.

The second one was about the "Holistic approach" not exactly a Mancini thread, more a thread about the change in the club model, and the potential advantages / pitfalls of it. I'm flattered you've taken such an interest in what I'm posting about, but if you're going to criticise me, at least make sure you're being accurate.

Don`t be flattered.I always remember reading shit threads and posts.Especially yours who offer nothing but shear hatred to other members of the Club apart from Mancini.Its now becoming tedious.

"Sheer hatred"? Makes you sound like you've got a George W Bush view of the world as Goodies Vs Baddies. I don't see the world like that.

I don't have "sheer hatred" for anyone at the club, certainly not for "all members of the club except Mancini." I do think he's a brilliant manager and wanted him to stay.

2 points - I thought the PR department should have diffused the situation on Saturday morning, and I think the manager as opposed to the Director of Football should dictate first team affairs. No hatred, just my two opinions, which I'm passionate about.

If you want to talk about either of those 2 points I'll happily listen to your opinion, but let's deal with reality and not your imagined "thread after thread" and "Shear hatred" hyperbolic nonsense.<br /><br />-- Tue May 14, 2013 2:53 am --<br /><br />

So Guardiola was a puppet at Barca then ?

Everyone has seen them slip from admittedly their own lofty standards not just due to Guardiola leaving.


It is simply a different way of running a first team squad.
Soriano and Berigistain will look at all aspects and what was needed to effect the next few years of advancement, which leads me nicely to my my next point...

Regarding your post about Mancini not wanting to be the puppet of Berigistain.
They had no issue from what we all know.
When Mancini had a go at stuff not being done as good as he wanted in december that pissed of the Sheikh a bit.
Come to January and Berigistain or Soriano pictured talking to Pelligrini's agent in Spain, coincidence ?

Basically it was an amalgamation of issues not Mancini refusing to be a 'puppet'.
If it had of been an issue for Mancini he would have quit the second he knew about the hiring of these chaps as he is a proud man.


Continue to be disgusted at assumptions though if you must.

No, Guadiola was not a puppet. As I pointed out earlier, the 433 system is ingrained in Barcelona, and has been for over 30 years. Txiki did not set this agenda and force Pep in to it. That structure was in place long before either had anything to do with the club.

I agree, it is a different way of running a first team squad. It is one I disagree with. I think in England it works better if the manager chooses the system and the players as opposed to the DoF. I don't think I'm alone in that thought.

I come back to this article where Mancini was asked about Txiki's reported plans to change the whole club to playing 433. I personally think this is part of the "Holistic approach" the club refers to in it's press release.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/roberto-mancini-says-he-shares-football-1242206" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... ll-1242206</a>

the 433 system is ingrained in Barcelona, and has been for over 30 years

I think that this is one aspect of a holistic approach

I completely agree. I'm just a little cautious as to whether it will be as successful here as it has been at Barca. Spain and England are 2 completely different footballing cultures.

 

[dctid]

Thread after thread? You mean 2 threads? One was about the PR disaster that the club was about to commit, and on all of the various Mancini, Vicky Kloss, Ferran / Txiki etc threads, I'd probably estimate 50% of the posts were people saying exactly the same thing as I did on Friday night. PR Disaster.

The second one was about the "Holistic approach" not exactly a Mancini thread, more a thread about the change in the club model, and the potential advantages / pitfalls of it. I'm flattered you've taken such an interest in what I'm posting about, but if you're going to criticise me, at least make sure you're being accurate.

Don`t be flattered.I always remember reading shit threads and posts.Especially yours who offer nothing but shear hatred to other members of the Club apart from Mancini.Its now becoming tedious.

"Sheer hatred"? Makes you sound like you've got a George W Bush view of the world as Goodies Vs Baddies. I don't see the world like that.

I don't have "sheer hatred" for anyone at the club, certainly not for "all members of the club except Mancini." I do think he's a brilliant manager and wanted him to stay.

2 points - I thought the PR department should have diffused the situation on Saturday morning, and I think the manager as opposed to the Director of Football should dictate first team affairs. No hatred, just my two opinions, which I'm passionate about.

If you want to talk about either of those 2 points I'll happily listen to your opinion, but let's deal with reality and not your imagined "thread after thread" and "Shear hatred" hyperbolic nonsense.

-- Tue May 14, 2013 2:53 am --

No, Guadiola was not a puppet. As I pointed out earlier, the 433 system is ingrained in Barcelona, and has been for over 30 years. Txiki did not set this agenda and force Pep in to it. That structure was in place long before either had anything to do with the club.

I agree, it is a different way of running a first team squad. It is one I disagree with. I think in England it works better if the manager chooses the system and the players as opposed to the DoF. I don't think I'm alone in that thought.

I come back to this article where Mancini was asked about Txiki's reported plans to change the whole club to playing 433. I personally think this is part of the "Holistic approach" the club refers to in it's press release.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/roberto-mancini-says-he-shares-football-1242206" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... ll-1242206</a>

the 433 system is ingrained in Barcelona, and has been for over 30 years

I think that this is one aspect of a holistic approach

I completely agree. I'm just a little cautious as to whether it will be as successful here as it has been at Barca. Spain and England are 2 completely different footballing cultures.

It can do BUT if the intention is to play like a Spanish or Iyalian team then it wont work. You have to play and buy players / managers that reflect the league you play in and as long as that happens i can work

Personally i still think it better to have a single manager because a DOF approach tends to turn the managers job into a revolving door policy and it becomes hire and fire.

But we are where we are

 

[fuzz barricade]

Yup but in Europe the director of football is all powerful

essentially the director of football sets the footballing style and then picks managers to suit

That is where we are

Never tried and never worked in England. Clubs with DoF have imploded, only Chelsea have kept the structure, is not in English football culture to do this. Watch the press, referees, players, opposition and the club chew both Pelle and Txiki up and spit them out.

Why has Ferguson been so successful. He is complete and sole authority at United. Everyone was scared of him.

If Khaldoon wants to be successful in England he needs to follow English rules. He was better off buying a club in Spain if he wanted this..

You could argue that Ferguson for all intents and purposes was a Director of Football....In charge of everything apart from the day to day coaching. His most sucessful periods came when he employed very able coaches in Kidd/McClaren/Queiroz and he changed them when the club needed to adapt.

Football has moved on and England is being left behind (you only need to look at the pool of talent at international level to see that).

Don't let your post of reason be lost in this shit. The op seems a terrible poster.

 

[Shaelumstash]

Never tried and never worked in England. Clubs with DoF have imploded, only Chelsea have kept the structure, is not in English football culture to do this. Watch the press, referees, players, opposition and the club chew both Pelle and Txiki up and spit them out.

Why has Ferguson been so successful. He is complete and sole authority at United. Everyone was scared of him.

If Khaldoon wants to be successful in England he needs to follow English rules. He was better off buying a club in Spain if he wanted this..

You could argue that Ferguson for all intents and purposes was a Director of Football....In charge of everything apart from the day to day coaching. His most sucessful periods came when he employed very able coaches in Kidd/McClaren/Queiroz and he changed them when the club needed to adapt.

Football has moved on and England is being left behind (you only need to look at the pool of talent at international level to see that).

Don't let your post of reason be lost in this shit. The op seems a terrible poster.

Terrible in what way?

I actually think the post about Slurgie is an interesting one. He did take up many of the roles of a DoF. I think the difference is, because he was the manager, he was responsible, and if his system / his buys didn't work, the book stopped at him and he took the blame.

I think having a head coach under a DoF means that the system / buys can fuck up, and it is still the head coach who will bare the brunt with the fans / media and ultimately his job. It's about culpability.

 

[kawkav]

this DoF approach is good in one sense that will eliminate the need of changing the squad everytime a new manager arrives. because than manager is hired to play an stablished system. we will no longer have players on high wage sitting on bench collecting check only because they dont fit style of a new manager.

my 2 cent

 

[MSP]

When they negotiated his 5 year deal do you think they did not have plans to employ Soriano and Berigistain and develop a more continental management model ?.
More than that, not tell Mancini ?

I'm not referring to that, of course he knew that and of course he agreed to that.

I'm referring to "he'd quit, he is proud man" line. He would never quit, he had a chance to quit when he didn't get players he wanted but opted to not do it and instead moan whole year about it until he got sacked and banked a nice settlement. I'd do the same but let's not go with that St. proud bobby stuff, there's no arguments for that at all.

Managers don't resign these days, managers wait to get sacked and cash settlement clauses. Mancini is not a bit different than all of others.

I think Mancini would have said 'Thanks but no thanks i don't like the idea of that management style' and parted ways then.
That is the issue i am talking about, if he could work with Begiristain or feel like a puppet.
The poster i was replying to seems to think Mancini was seemingly duped with the new heirachy and delt a bad hand and was essentially fired due to this.
I feel this was not even an issue for Mancini let alone the sole reason for him going.

The main reason is that he alienated himself with too many people at the club. If he produced results it could save him for a while but as soon as results were not there they did not wait to trigger the sack hammer.

Ladyman, for once, has a pretty good piece to read at Mail, he got the most if not everything right.

 

[Bluesiam]

Man management and a willingness to work hand in hand with the club. Not a yes-man but if it suits some feeble minds, feel free to simplify it that way. OR open your mind and have a look around Europe at some of the very best run clubs utilizing the model we now seek to.

All the outrage at the club without knowing all the details... some of you become fanboys of a manager rather than supporters of the club.

Very well put Sir.