How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

[The Future’s Blue!]

Still a fuck up. Any benefits yet?

Immigration?

Economy?

Anything?

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

For someone who occasionally comes across as relatively intelligent, your ability to actually read and understand what others are saying, frankly, let's you down.

Insult aside, the issue you still have, is that you made up an assumption about my position, I asked you to substantiate it and you were unable. Until the next time.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

No, it’s been totally controlled. It’s just allowed more in than some people like.

Ok if that the way you want to put it, fine. But that doesn't change the fact that your assumption was fundamentally wrong.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Ok if that the way you want to put it, fine. But that doesn't change the fact that your assumption was fundamentally wrong.

I’ve had enough debating with someone not putting their own view forward.

Knock yourself out.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

So if you voted for Brexit because you didn't want to be part of the EU political system?

Success as in better life for British people.

Sure, if you're an anti EU ideologue who doesn't care about quality of life for us, then it's been a great success.

But the original point was about how our political class had failed somehow. My point is that no political class could have made a success of it, other than in the narrow ideological sense you suggest.

Any different implementation would just have a different set of failures.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Far-right in my book is:

a) A contempt for the Rule of Law. Examples, blaming judges when they apply the law because it doesn't suit the book. Arguing for arbitrary and unlawful 'solutions', like towing the boats back to France.
b) Arbitrary government. That is the belief that the government is above the law and can/should do whatever it takes. In modern terms, the absurd notion is that a 'mandate' overrules law. (It used to be the King's divinity.)
c) A general contempt for education, intellectuals, art and literature. These days you can add science to that list!
d) Obsessive nationalism, militarism and flag worship.
e) Deep suspicion of international bodies and treaties.
f) Rioters? Probably, but many are just criminals and thugs. They may well not have a thought-through political philosophy. If their motive is that they hate brown people, I'd call that far-right for sure.
g) Brexit? Depends on motive. The Communist Party of Britain was all for Brexit. You can't call them far-right. But if the motive was hatred of foreigners, sure, far-right.
h) Wanting to reduce the flow of immigration? Not in principle far-right. But fucking unrealistic unless you have an alternative way of keeping the economy going. Would it be far-left to increase taxes to pay for extra education and training to create more of our own skilled people? The idea that we can turn the tap off tomorrow and see no consequences is for the birds. The problem is rooted in our disproportionate and growing numbers of retired people.
i) Kemi Badenoch is arguably far-right in that she is more to the right than any previous Tory leader and makes Duncan-Smith look like a liberal. But it's relative. She isn't Hitler. So I'd be inclined to say very right-wing Tory. A sort of Anti-Corbyn.

Thanks for the detailed response Brian, I appreciate it. I agree with a little of what you have said. Either far right is pretty arbitary then. Based on your statements it is safe to assume that you believe some but not all if the four categories of voters I put forward would be classed as far right. My guess is that's somewhere beween 10% and 15% of the population. What's you estimate?

By the way, as an aside you went from talking about reducing the flow of immigration to turning the tap off? Personally im not an advocate of that, clearly some immigration is beneficial and needed.

I think controlled immigration similar to how Australia operate is a possibility for the UK but it has to be implemented correctly.

Also I have put this out there before but no one was able to answer me. Honest question why is the ROI able to put illegal immigrants straight back on a ferry to the UK without any formal checks or processing but the UK is unable to do the same with those driving from the EU?

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

So if you voted for Brexit because you didn't want to be part of the EU political system?

You didn't vote for the Brexit on offer then did you? The vote was never about being a Norway or Switzerland. It was always going to be the most extreme separation.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

You didn't vote for the Brexit on offer then did you? The vote was never about being a Norway or Switzerland. It was always going to be the most extreme separation.

Kobay I used that as an example why some people may have voted for Brexit and now feel that the political separation from the EU has been a success as its what they wanted. I know two people who's main reason for voting leave was for this reason.

 

[hilts]

The blame, such as it is, and in the context of this particular subject, ultimately rests with people who voted for it in the reckless assumption that we had the political class and systems to deliver it effectively, assuming it was possible to do so.

Did you think we had? Do you still hold that view now?

There is a flaw in this argument a referendum on the EU is not a regular thing you can't vote remain based solely on the abilities of the sitting govt one would probably never get the chance again.
No one can predict what type of govt we are going to get and most partake in a undemocratic vote every few years. Some of these people will complain about a democratic vote but seem quite happy having a govt with a large majority running things without the support of the majority of the electorate.
People only seem concerned about lies, promises and democracy when their lot lose. Its hard to have any sympathy.

 

[hampshireblue]

I’ve had enough debating with Soneone not putting their own view forward.

Knock yourself out.

But remember, your assumption was not merely flawed-just wrong-in his objective and balanced opinion!!