How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

[Citizen of Legoland]

Propensity to vote for Brexit increased with age and decreased with more education, they are the facts.

Got to be careful with that correlation though. Firstly the older the generation the lower the chances of having had the educational opportunities of later generations. And in my experience education does not often equate to intelligence. Most graduates need to google “how to boil an egg”. Also, the older generations had the emotional pull of how the country used to be plus decades of negativity towards the EU, all of which the youngsters have had no exposure to.

 

[oldius]

Got to be careful with that correlation though. Firstly the older the generation the lower the chances of having had the educational opportunities of later generations. And in my experience education does not often equate to intelligence. Most graduates need to google “how to boil an egg”. Also, the older generations had the emotional pull of how the country used to be plus decades of negativity towards the EU, all of which the youngsters have had no exposure to.

I make no explanation of the statistics: I am from a poor background myself.

Here is the breakdown from The Joseph Rowntree Foundation.

Key findings:​

• The poorest households, with incomes of less than £20,000 per year, were much more likely to support leaving the EU than the wealthiest households, as were the unemployed, people in low-skilled and manual occupations, people who feel that their financial situation has worsened, and those with no qualifications.
• Groups vulnerable to poverty were more likely to support Brexit. Age, income and education matter, though it is educational inequality that was the strongest driver. Other things being equal, support for leave was 30 percentage points higher among those with GCSE qualifications or below than it was for people with a degree. In contrast, support for leave was just 10 points higher among those on less than £20,000 per year than it was among those with incomes of more than £60,000 per year, and 20 points higher among those aged 65 than those aged 25.
• Support for Brexit varied not only between individuals but also between areas. People with all levels of qualifications were more likely to vote leave in low-skill areas compared with high-skill areas. However, this effect was stronger for the more highly qualified. In low-skilled communities the difference in support for leave between graduates and those with GCSEs was 20 points. In high-skilled communities it was over 40 points. In low-skill areas the proportion of A-level holders voting leave was closer to that of people with low-skills. In high-skill areas their vote was much more similar to graduates.
• Groups in Britain who have been ‘left behind’ by rapid economic change and feel cut adrift from the mainstream consensus were the most likely to support Brexit. These voters face a ‘double whammy’. While their lack of qualifications put them at a significant disadvantage in the modern economy, they are also being further marginalised in society by the lack of opportunities that faced in their low-skilled communities. This will make it extremely difficult for the left behind to adapt and prosper in future.

All of us will have witnessed the damage that poverty can cause to the 'cohesion' and togetherness in society. I cite the example of the BNP moving their head office to Burnley, an area blighted by poverty with a high Asian population.

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

I make no explanation of the statistics: I am from a poor background myself.

Here is the breakdown from The Joseph Rowntree Foundation.

Key findings:​

• The poorest households, with incomes of less than £20,000 per year, were much more likely to support leaving the EU than the wealthiest households, as were the unemployed, people in low-skilled and manual occupations, people who feel that their financial situation has worsened, and those with no qualifications.
• Groups vulnerable to poverty were more likely to support Brexit. Age, income and education matter, though it is educational inequality that was the strongest driver. Other things being equal, support for leave was 30 percentage points higher among those with GCSE qualifications or below than it was for people with a degree. In contrast, support for leave was just 10 points higher among those on less than £20,000 per year than it was among those with incomes of more than £60,000 per year, and 20 points higher among those aged 65 than those aged 25.
• Support for Brexit varied not only between individuals but also between areas. People with all levels of qualifications were more likely to vote leave in low-skill areas compared with high-skill areas. However, this effect was stronger for the more highly qualified. In low-skilled communities the difference in support for leave between graduates and those with GCSEs was 20 points. In high-skilled communities it was over 40 points. In low-skill areas the proportion of A-level holders voting leave was closer to that of people with low-skills. In high-skill areas their vote was much more similar to graduates.
• Groups in Britain who have been ‘left behind’ by rapid economic change and feel cut adrift from the mainstream consensus were the most likely to support Brexit. These voters face a ‘double whammy’. While their lack of qualifications put them at a significant disadvantage in the modern economy, they are also being further marginalised in society by the lack of opportunities that faced in their low-skilled communities. This will make it extremely difficult for the left behind to adapt and prosper in future.

All of us will have witnessed the damage that poverty can cause to the 'cohesion' and togetherness in society. I cite the example of the BNP moving their head office to Burnley, an area blighted by poverty with a high Asian population.

Just wondering why you focused on the age/qualification part instead of the poverty angle, which to me is a much more likely reason as to why Brexit succeeded. The last point from The Joseph Rowntree Foundation there discusses groups within the country feeling abandoned and we had a warning when the Scottish vote ended so close that there were areas becoming emboldened to seek change. This is still continuing to this day, Radcliffe just voted in 8 independent councillors out of a possible 9 in the local elections because it’s an area that’s been dumped on for decades and people want to give someone else a chance and I have a feeling this trend will spread. It’s as simple as that. The major parties, every one, are to blame, nobody else.

 

[oldius]

Just wondering why you focused on the age/qualification part instead of the poverty angle, which to me is a much more likely reason as to why Brexit succeeded. The last point from The Joseph Rowntree Foundation there discusses groups within the country feeling abandoned and we had a warning when the Scottish vote ended so close that there were areas becoming emboldened to seek change. This is still continuing to this day, Radcliffe just voted in 8 independent councillors out of a possible 9 in the local elections because it’s an area that’s been dumped on for decades and people want to give someone else a chance and I have a feeling this trend will spread. It’s as simple as that. The major parties, every one, are to blame, nobody else.

Fair point, though it is true that age and academic attainment were factors.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Got to be careful with that correlation though. Firstly the older the generation the lower the chances of having had the educational opportunities of later generations. And in my experience education does not often equate to intelligence. Most graduates need to google “how to boil an egg”. Also, the older generations had the emotional pull of how the country used to be plus decades of negativity towards the EU, all of which the youngsters have had no exposure to.

My ERO, when he was at Sheffield University phoned me up to ask me that very thing! And my Rag s-in-l, highly educated, highly intelligent, has to bear my comments about a tin of beans. I always say that no matter his educational background he can still open a tin of beans, as long as it's got a ring pull!

 

[mosssideblue]

View attachment 45981

This man.

He bet on shortening on the pound and his wealth improved significantly. Other rich cunts did the same. And they will keep doing so because they don't give a fuck about anyone or anything. They have access to what they need. Fuck everyone else.

Would be worth being in court charged with twatting him

 

[blueparrot]

Fantasy maybe, but it could have been reality with some vision. Thats why the EU as it stands is untenable, it lacks vision, it only wants to expand its sphere of influence and expand the reach of neo liberalism

I agree totally that the Tories have fucked Brexit up.

It could never be a reality because the brexit you wanted was dependent on the UK electorate voting for labour party led by Corbyn or similar. That never was and will never happen. When you voted for Brexit it was only ever going to be delivered by a Tory government, maybe not one as bad as this one but still, aTory one. So that and this is what you have played your part in bringing to us.

 

[Saddleworth2]

It could never be a reality because the brexit you wanted was dependent on the UK electorate voting for labour party led by Corbyn or similar. That never was and will never happen. When you coted for. Brexit it was only ever going to be delivered by a Tory government, maybe not one as bad as this one but still. A Tory one. So that and this is what you have played your part in bringing to us.

It’s interesting to note the little argument that is left. Either it’s been implemented wrong or it’s turned into whataboutery or sarcasm. I sometimes miss @mcfc1632 (if that was his number). At least you would get some original thought even if it was bonkers.

 

[M18CTID]

Yeah, fair point although I think it was fairly obvious that Cameron’s position would become immediately untenable if Leave won. I don’t think Labour came that close to winning in 2019 either. I guess not many Leavers would’ve voted for the current situation though. Who would actively want to make their lives worse?

Yeah, they (Labour) were way off in 2019 but were only (I think) 17 seats short of a majority in 2017.

You’re right on the last bit - I think it’s only the die hard leavers that are defending it now

 

[M18CTID]

It could never be a reality because the brexit you wanted was dependent on the UK electorate voting for labour party led by Corbyn or similar. That never was and will never happen. When you coted for. Brexit it was only ever going to be delivered by a Tory government, maybe not one as bad as this one but still. A Tory one. So that and this is what you have played your part in bringing to us.

I pointed out to Ric that Corbyn wasn’t a million miles off winning in 2017. Who knows what Brexit we would’ve got if he’d got in? That said, Corbyn had a history of being anti-EU during his political career but I doubt that he would’ve proposed anything remotely resembling a hard Brexit

 

[bobmcfc]

Boris and his wankers wanted Brexit so badly and were willing to lie so brazenly to the British public about the Benefits of leaving. I remain convinced they just did not want anyone in the EU asking questions or holding them accountable for any of the shady shit they are doing. Now they hold all the power and can pretty much brush anything under the carpet without much blowback.

There are zero benefits for us. We were lied to and we can do absolutely nothing about it now.

 

[Tugay One Cup]

I remember when people tried to convince the leave crowd that "project fear" was actually just common sense. Now I have to listen to many of those same people complain about how they were manipulated and lied to. Dickheads.

 

[stonerblue]

I notice how you’ve not put a general time limit in your response.

I’ve flown all around the world and cannot remember waiting up to 3 hours.

30 mins maybe an hour, yeah fine, not 3 hours.

Are you kidding? I've waited at manchester airport for over 2 hours just to get back into the country.
Also had to wait over 3 hours to be processed through Vegas airport

 

[Corky]

I has gone as well as City Circle, but is more permanent.

 

[Octavian]

Are you kidding? I've waited at manchester airport for over 2 hours just to get back into the country.
Also had to wait over 3 hours to be processed through Vegas airport

You must have been very unlucky, I’ve never waited that long and flown all over.

 

[Kippaxpete]

Put simply, the greatest act of self-harm ever inflicted on this country, all for the sake of a blue passport to appease the xenophobic little Englanders. If anyone on here can tell me what's meant by 'taking back our sovereignty' I'll buy them a steak dinner.

 

[stonerblue]

I can go abroad (Albeit with a bit of a queue) I can work abroad if I fill in the right paperwork.

Are you complaining about inconvenience?

What paperwork is this?

 

[blueparrot]

I pointed out to Ric that Corbyn wasn’t a million miles off winning in 2017. Who knows what Brexit we would’ve got if he’d got in? That said, Corbyn had a history of being anti-EU during his political career but I doubt that he would’ve proposed anything remotely resembling a hard Brexit

Lets not forget though Corbyn, and the opposition parties in general along with the ousted tory rebels actually had a majority in parliament in 2019 and could with compromise changed the Brexit we had. That chance was thrown away with a refusal to compromise and work together because they wanted a GE. Blame for that though can probably be spread around.

 

[blueparrot]

I can go abroad (Albeit with a bit of a queue) I can work abroad if I fill in the right paperwork.

Are you complaining about inconvenience?

You obviously don’t run a small company that imports exports between the UK and the EU, or NI and GB for that matter.
Though to be fair a lot less small or single traders do now because the increased costs became intenable when competing with bigger ones that could absorb the extra costs or sub contract the extra work out.

 

[M16 citeh]

Put simply, the greatest act of self-harm ever inflicted on this country, all for the sake of a blue passport to appease the xenophobic little Englanders. If anyone on here can tell me what's meant by 'taking back our sovereignty' I'll buy them a steak dinner.

Only if it's British steak mate