journolud
Well-Known Member
True but globalisation is much more than the movement of people, I doubt whether the leave voters all strung up about immigration looked beyond that
How do we resolve the Brexit mess?
- Thread starter Magicpole
- Start date
I think external political influence - or what they perceived as that - also came into it.
My main point is that remain voters put the economy as a priority when a lot of leave voters don’t, then everyone is confused by the other position.
searsleftpeg
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It seems a bit patronising to think the people who voted Brexit, were incapable of assessing all the competing wild claims, by both sides,£350 million for the NHS, or the whole economy would crash and burn, and only remainders saw through the spin which considering Covid and Ukraine we have done okay. The E. U. was widely considered by Brexiteers as a self serving gravy train, accounts not signed off for years(try that with HMRC if you are running a business), expenses given without requiring receipts. (as shown on numerous inquiries.)
The straightforward Common Market was fine, but The Euro, freedom of movement and the perception of ever more powerful unelected pen pushers irritated people. It was always obvious, the difficulties would be exaggerated,as the EU are desperate to keep up the pretence of all well in the club(Ask the Greeks, Spanish, or any of Southern Europe.
N. I. as a case in point, if it's such a problem to have checks at the border, instead of 30 miles inside the UK (Irish Sea) , how about 2 miles inside Eire, problem solved. Incidentally if anyone thinks The South really wants to incorporate The North with the two thirds Protestant anti Catholics, with no hand outs from G.B. they are kidding themselves.
Just for the record, I voted remain and was as close as 93'20 was, to moving to France.
In a nutshell, E. U. bad, Common Market good.
Anyway now to finish that bottle of Merlot, whilst gazing out over the lovely Lot river in Haute Vienne. Roll on next season.
The straightforward Common Market was fine, but The Euro, freedom of movement and the perception of ever more powerful unelected pen pushers irritated people. It was always obvious, the difficulties would be exaggerated,as the EU are desperate to keep up the pretence of all well in the club(Ask the Greeks, Spanish, or any of Southern Europe.
N. I. as a case in point, if it's such a problem to have checks at the border, instead of 30 miles inside the UK (Irish Sea) , how about 2 miles inside Eire, problem solved. Incidentally if anyone thinks The South really wants to incorporate The North with the two thirds Protestant anti Catholics, with no hand outs from G.B. they are kidding themselves.
Just for the record, I voted remain and was as close as 93'20 was, to moving to France.
In a nutshell, E. U. bad, Common Market good.
Anyway now to finish that bottle of Merlot, whilst gazing out over the lovely Lot river in Haute Vienne. Roll on next season.
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
Hmm - Lord Daniel Hannan - Lord David Frost - Lord Evgeny Lebedev - Lady Clair Fox -Lord Ian Botham - Lord Michael Spencer - all Johnson appointee's none have ever held public office - You don't fix a flat rear drivers side puncture by puncturing the nearside one hoping that sorts it out
searsleftpeg
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No argument from me regarding the unelected second chamber. It should be reduced to a rump of say 35 all elected members and moved to meet in the North, perhaps Hull or Burnley. The House of Lords should be opened as a tourist attraction, and only used as a second chamber for state occasions. How on earth we have ended up with the second largest legislature in the world. China having the largest. We could then move on to doing something about the Commons
East Level 2
Well-Known Member
First World country has First World problems. Who'd a thunk it?
journolud
Well-Known Member
Put like that Brexit isn’t so bad compared to what is happening, and always has been happening in the third world. Can the bar get any lower?
Bodicoteblue
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Since you have touched on the huge complexities of what the EU stands for and the almost impossibility of complete withdrawal by britain- or indeed any member- like trying to take the eggs out of a baked cake as I heard it described , then you can surely see that the patronising came from the leave campaigners and their compliant media friends, if they thought that ordinary folk would believe the claims of metaphorical unicorns and sunny uplands.
Even cursory investigation would have explained how the EU reach into so many strands of life. Whether you see that as loss of sovereignty or not those complexities exist and were reduced to simple-minded xenophobic and anti-European nonsense by vested interests.
That‘s where the worst patronising and assumptions of mass stupidity were to be found.
By the way, you do know that the Good Friday Agreement precludes a hard border on the island of Ireland whether it’s the current notional one or 1 mile or 100 miles away or in the Stormont toilet.
I am though very jealous of your view of the river in one of my favourite parts of Europe.
Prestwich_Blue
Well-Known Member
It was on the agenda though. You obviously weren't paying attention.
The Five Presidents Report made it clear that the aim of the EU hierarchy was full political and monetary union, where countries would be told how much revenue to raise, and how much they could spend. At some point, the choice would have been take that or get out. So we'd have been out sooner or later.
The Euro was an act of staggering economic illiteracy that suited Germany down to the ground but removed fiscal and monetary freedom of action from all other countries.
Rascal is absolutely right that it was the right thing to do but unfortunately there wasn't a serious debate. It was hijacked by little Englanders and (one part he missed out) the major progressive party that could and should have opposed it was led by a neo-Stalinist ideologue (who, incidentally, Rascal greatly admired), who was quite happy to see it happen and sat on his backside while the arguments raged around him.
The problem was that the EU got too big for its boots, with delusions of grandeur. Had they stuck to just being the Common Market, no one could seriously have argued against being a member.
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BridgyDids
Well-Known Member
A shambles. An obvious shambles from the first minute the small majority voted it through. Steered by an incompetent self serving mob.
After 6 years, I’ve still not seen or heard one tangible benefit to Brexit. (Vaccine roll out was a bit of a gamble which paid off, and fair play to the NHS and volunteers for progressing it!)
After 6 years, I’ve still not seen or heard one tangible benefit to Brexit. (Vaccine roll out was a bit of a gamble which paid off, and fair play to the NHS and volunteers for progressing it!)
Gosh. I'm all right, Jack. Other people's problems are no concern of mine.
And has anyone in this thread come up with any benefit of Brexit - to them personally or the UK?
YOU MANIACS sums it up.
Dave Ewing's Back 'eader
Well-Known Member
Mao Zhedong thinks it's too early to come to a decision.
searsleftpeg
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I think the first few paragraphs rather prove my point, with the assumption that Brexiteers couldn't take into account the various options before they arrived at their decision. The oft repeated phrase re. eggs and cakes was undoubtedly coined by a remainder, and probably reinforced the desire of Brexiteers
to be out.
As for the border, I'm sure G. B. wouldn't mind a continuation of pre Brexit arrangements,or a soft border, but in the South as it's certainly in the interests of Dublin not to have to deal with the two thirds in the North who would not want any unification, which could be a consequence of the EU stance, even they are forever singing about
it.
On a more important topic it is lovely here, but my preference is for Italy, something about the Ballotelli mind set I find appealing, still my Dear Lady Wife prefers France, so having put my foot down here we are.
It’s no River Lune though, eh.
searsleftpeg
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Bodicoteblue
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Pre-brexit there was no border, soft or otherwise, as per theGood Friday. Agreement.There was a line on a map but it meant nothing really.
At the last NI elections to Stormont, the unionists fell into a minority of 41% for the first time in NI history. Not two thirds.
The people of NI have seen that they have the best of both worlds with trade with GB and free access to the EU single market, and business is booming.
Of course the unionists are spitting nails- they have lost their power base and are throwing the toys out of the pram and refusing to take part in the govt. of NI, until ’something‘ is done to change the NI protocol- something the majority of voters of NI obviously don’t want. The only people who want the protocol changed are the defeated unionists and this government who signed up to it. It can only be a matter of time until some kind of poll or referendum is held on the re-unification of Ireland.
The EU stance is that they will stick to the protocol as agreed by all parties and signed into law, British, EU, and international.
The EU stance is also the preservation and protection of the single market and they want the protocol kept as is because it achieves just that.
Johnson had the choice of a border in Ireland rendered impossible by the GFA and had no choice but to put it in the sea (sadly the condition about his dead body was not met). And he must have known that at the time.
The majority of NI citizens, it would appear are now closer to a united Ireland because they can now see how that would work for their benefit.
I love the Italian lakes and Tuscany is just beautiful but I would settle for SW France any time.
searsleftpeg
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Think that vote was mainly protest about Boris, would be different if genuinely brought unification closer, but primarily meant the view from Dublin. We will just have to agree to disagree,about the E. U. for me, being a Remainer, it was the lesser of two evils.but no illusions about how it's the political equivalent of FIFA. Still more importantly Erling and Alvarez seem good buys. Mr G. Fiddich is taking its toll, so off to dream about Pep. giving me a call, when he needs a speedy winger.
Mr Kobayashi
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What an absolute scum bag Tice is, we have a lower unemployment rate than most of the EU and it is nothing to do with Brexit.
Why don't you get in the fields and pick fruit yourself, you giant turd.
Unemployment Rate - Countries - List | Europe
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The narrative is beginning to change. The government, well some of their politicians, and Grant Shapps in particular, are starting to peddle the 'can we rejoin the customs union' please.
He was an arch remainer and only got his job after he was promised a cabinet position if he agreed to toe the party line to 'get brexit done', as have other cabinet members like Lizz Truss.
Typical tory, 'the party is more important than the country' thinking, but hey ho.
They all know Brexit is going to be a fucking disaster for the country economically. They know there is no solution to the Irish Protocol as things stand at present, they have leaders from all sectors of industry telling them the extra costs and paperwork of exporting goods to our nearest neighbours are crippling them financially, and the government know full well what the effects of import controls will have on food supplies and other essential imports if they have to be instigated.
Brexit was a lie, but before the referendum, we were told we could have our cake and eat it.
Nigel Farage told the world it would be inconcevable we would leave the EU without a deaL, and we could stay in the customs union. Jacob Reese Mogg told us prices would come down as our abilty to strike independent trade deals would result in lower import tariffs.
All of that bullshit was backed by Russian money and organised by Cambridge Analyticta. Thay blitzed social media for two weeks before the referendum, and it was the only time leave was in front.
The brexit we have wasn't on the table in 2016. We have ended up with a deal that wasn't promised before 2016.
He was an arch remainer and only got his job after he was promised a cabinet position if he agreed to toe the party line to 'get brexit done', as have other cabinet members like Lizz Truss.
Typical tory, 'the party is more important than the country' thinking, but hey ho.
They all know Brexit is going to be a fucking disaster for the country economically. They know there is no solution to the Irish Protocol as things stand at present, they have leaders from all sectors of industry telling them the extra costs and paperwork of exporting goods to our nearest neighbours are crippling them financially, and the government know full well what the effects of import controls will have on food supplies and other essential imports if they have to be instigated.
Brexit was a lie, but before the referendum, we were told we could have our cake and eat it.
Nigel Farage told the world it would be inconcevable we would leave the EU without a deaL, and we could stay in the customs union. Jacob Reese Mogg told us prices would come down as our abilty to strike independent trade deals would result in lower import tariffs.
All of that bullshit was backed by Russian money and organised by Cambridge Analyticta. Thay blitzed social media for two weeks before the referendum, and it was the only time leave was in front.
The brexit we have wasn't on the table in 2016. We have ended up with a deal that wasn't promised before 2016.