How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

[gordondaviesmoustache]

We?

Yes, we made this terrible decision as a nation. I didn’t vote for it, nor did you, nor did the Scots, but the United Kingdom did and we must therefore own it collectively to sone extent because in our own way, we probably all played a part, irrespective of how we voted. Perhaps those of us who wanted to remain were too complacent.

So yes, ‘we’, to some extent.

 

[Gabriel]

Not initially because when they win the election the economic constraints due to the state the Tories have left the economy won’t leave many options. However the direction and priorities that he sets will be radically different imo.

Agree that if they win the GE then the economic constraints will bind them, and I agree that their priorities will also be different, but in terms of direction, specifically in relation to this thread, I find it hard to imagine a radical difference.

 

[bluethrunthru]

According to Reet-Smugg we shouldn’t take any notice of these forecasts as they are always wrong!!!

he only likes forecasts that agree with his view OR those which forecast a better outcome than he is telling us about. Maybe he needs to ask himself why these don't exist.

 

[blueparrot]

Agree that if they win the GE then the economic constraints will bind them, and I agree that their priorities will also be different, but in terms of direction, specifically in relation to this thread, I find it hard to imagine a radical difference.

Even if the priorities are similar to Blair and Browns in 97 it's still a hell of a radical change from the priorities of the last 8 years. The only question is what state the economy will be in and what they are able to do.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Yup and we ain’t doing anything to repair it, that budget was doom and gloom and zero talk about how we would get growth back into the economy. We have a low value pound at the moment, it could be beneficial on exporting however companies have shit loads of paperwork to complete to get goods out of the country and into the EU. Where is the debate to get this process more streamlined or the proper debate we should have had when leaving is staying part of the single market.

Johnson, Cummings and Reece Mogg and his cronies and also Cameron for being asleep at the wheel during the referendum should be locked up in the Tower of London for what they have done to this country.

why talk about growth when you cannot achieve it? This Govt have enjoyed electoral success by not growing the economy but just saying they are or they will if asked about it - when no-one is asking why go there? People are being played and are so stupid - if you go on line yo can see how piss poor we have performed and how 12 years have been about driving public services down whilst transferring wealth from the poor to the rich but people still vote Tory even as an act of self harm.

 

[woody1968]

Yes, we made this terrible decision as a nation. I didn’t vote for it, nor did you, nor did the Scots, but the United Kingdom did and we must therefore own it collectively to sone extent because in our own way, we probably all played a part, irrespective of how we voted. Perhaps those of us who wanted to remain were too complacent.

So yes, ‘we’, to some extent.

Agree completely-lesson learnt hopefully at the next GE

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

The more it drags on the less likely....
I speak to some friends and they are still undecided. What the hell does it take?

I don’t know.
From reading the political threads lately, there does seem to be the realisation dawning on a lot in Britain generally, something we thick Paddy’s knew from the setting up of the Union.
That is, your Tory Party and government have no interest in governing. They are only interested in ruling.
It was always ever so. Rule Britannia et al.
I don’t believe we were ever a willing partner in a United Kingdom. We were subjugated.

The realisation seems to me to be setting in now that this crowd don’t have an interest in the working classes of England Scotland Wales or Northern Ireland and I can never quite get my head around how your population seemingly endorse them at elections time after time and Yes, your electoral system and class system maintains this scenario over and over.

I also think, though it’s none of my business that the whole monarchy, peerage, lords and Ladies that is ingrained into you, helps perpetuate an image of Britain in the populaces minds, that for most people in the country, is and always was a myth.
It’s a way of maintaining the Rule over you.


I think now it has become obvious what the calibre of those supposedly in charge is, it is also obvious that they are only puppets to the real ruling class.

 

[bluethrunthru]

I wish they would stop crying salty tears and own what they won !!

Rishi Sunak and Jeremy Hunt killed the dream of any Brexit dividend

ANDREW NEIL: Any possible benefits of Brexit, of which there have been precious few to date, were snuffed out by the Sunak-Hunt determination to put fiscal rectitude above all things.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Gabriel]

I wish they would stop crying salty tears and own what they won !!

Rishi Sunak and Jeremy Hunt killed the dream of any Brexit dividend

ANDREW NEIL: Any possible benefits of Brexit, of which there have been precious few to date, were snuffed out by the Sunak-Hunt determination to put fiscal rectitude above all things.

www.dailymail.co.uk

He actually makes some valid points about what has happened and what will happen.

 

[Saddleworth2]

your population

Not my population mate. Let’s be honest, the English.

whole monarchy, peerage, lords and Ladies that is ingrained into you,

In general, I do think that it would be a damn sight healthier to look forward than back. Mind you, for many, the future is a damn sight bleaker than what has gone before. The thing is, if anything the wealth gap was even worse when Britain was at the peak of it’s empire. I’m not sure that the old class system is as important anymore. It’s more about the super rich vs the rest and I do think they have enormous leverage over how we are governed.

 

[west didsblue]

I wish they would stop crying salty tears and own what they won !!

Rishi Sunak and Jeremy Hunt killed the dream of any Brexit dividend

ANDREW NEIL: Any possible benefits of Brexit, of which there have been precious few to date, were snuffed out by the Sunak-Hunt determination to put fiscal rectitude above all things.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The second half amused me when he made out that real Brexiteers weren’t given a chance to make it work, that the BBC have been pursuing a Remainer agenda and best of all that he wouldn’t say which way he voted after parroting all the Brexiteer complaints about it not being given a chance.

 

[Saddleworth2]

He actually makes some valid points about what has happened and what will happen.

He also spouts an awful lot of nonsense. ‘not showing his hand which way he voted’. Hmmm let me take a wild guess.

He cannot admit that the vision of ‘Singapore on Thames‘ was always just that and never will be anything but that.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Not my population mate. Let’s be honest, the English.

In general, I do think that it would be a damn sight healthier to look forward than back. Mind you, for many, the future is a damn sight bleaker than what has gone before. The thing is, if anything the wealth gap was even worse when Britain was at the peak of it’s empire. I’m not sure that the old class system is as important anymore. It’s more about the super rich vs the rest and I do think they have enormous leverage over how we are governed.

I’ve heard plenty in here from England come to the realisation of what is ruling them.

You are right about the wealthy really being in charge, and control the narrative through the media.

I could have it all wrong from over here but it still seems to me that the old boys club use the system and national pride through the royalty/monarchy etc. to maintain the illusion of it benefiting the whole country, whereas it benefits those in control. Helps maintain control.

 

[Gabriel]

He also spouts an awful lot of nonsense. ‘not showing his hand which way he voted’. Hmmm let me take a wild guess.

He cannot admit that the vision of ‘Singapore on Thames‘ was always just that and never will be anything but that.

He does describe it as ‘dreamy’ and ‘simplistic’. He’s right in -pointing out that their ’dream‘ is dead in the water, which raises the question of what direction the country will head in and when they’ll actually hoist a sail.

 

[Bodicoteblue]

Henry Bolton on LBC this morning spouting the usual ‘everyone else is to blame for brexit failure’ and bemoaning that it was great idea but badly implemented.
Apparently there was no cogent plan to implement it (no shit) not even from those who told us how wonderful it was going to be - not even ukip. he told us.
Eventually he was requested to provide a brexit benefit- guess what?
The best he had was that as far as he could see things were pretty much as they were before brexit…..not much of a selling point.
On top of that the public phone in was almost entirely hostile.
Still, it was another uncovering of the sheer stupidity of the whole thing and that has to be good.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Henry Bolton on LBC this morning spouting the usual ‘everyone else is to blame for brexit failure’ and bemoaning that it was great idea but badly implemented.
Apparently there was no cogent plan to implement it (no shit) not even from those who told us how wonderful it was going to be - not even ukip. he told us.
Eventually he was requested to provide a brexit benefit- guess what?
The best he had was that as far as he could see things were pretty much as they were before brexit…..not much of a selling point.
On top of that the public phone in was almost entirely hostile.
Still, it was another uncovering of the sheer stupidity of the whole thing and that has to be good.

It was always going to be badly implemented. Even if there had been a cogent plan, it still would have been hugely fraught and complicated. And there was no cogent plan. So it was bound to be a complete disaster. No-one who voted Leave had a fucking cogent plan either btw.

This is what people voted for. Own your fucking decision. Take some fucking responsibility and stop blaming other cunts.

If I can take some responsibility for this fuckung abortion (which I do) then anyone for voted for it should do so to. The sooner we face up to this catastrophic error collectively, the better.

We’ve completely fucked up, which has been compounded by other factors (Covid, Ukraine, energy prices) so it’s even worse than most people, myself included, could have envisaged. And we don’t have the quality within the political class to rescue the situation.

An absolute clusterfuck.

 

[Vic]

I wish they would stop crying salty tears and own what they won !!

Rishi Sunak and Jeremy Hunt killed the dream of any Brexit dividend

ANDREW NEIL: Any possible benefits of Brexit, of which there have been precious few to date, were snuffed out by the Sunak-Hunt determination to put fiscal rectitude above all things.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The situation means that Brexit benefits are dead. Not that the situation is because of Brexit...?

 

[dronefromsector7G]

It was always going to be badly implemented. Even if there had been a cogent plan, it still would have been hugely fraught and complicated. And there was no cogent plan. So it was bound to be a complete disaster. No-one who voted Leave had a fucking cogent plan either btw.

This is what people voted for. Own your fucking decision. Take some fucking responsibility and stop blaming other cunts.

If I can take some responsibility for this fuckung abortion (which I do) then anyone for voted for it should do so to. The sooner we face up to this catastrophic error collectively, the better.

We’ve completely fucked up, which has been compounded by other factors (Covid, Ukraine, energy prices) so it’s even worse than most people, myself included, could have envisaged. And we don’t have the quality within the political class to rescue the situation.

An absolute clusterfuck.

I didn’t know you felt this way

 

[The perfect fumble]

I wish they would stop crying salty tears and own what they won !!

Rishi Sunak and Jeremy Hunt killed the dream of any Brexit dividend

ANDREW NEIL: Any possible benefits of Brexit, of which there have been precious few to date, were snuffed out by the Sunak-Hunt determination to put fiscal rectitude above all things.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Neoliberals hated the restrictions of the EU because it stunted their ability to exploit without restraint and make loadsamoney. Left wing radicals hated the EU because it constrained the state from refashioning the economy in favour of working men and women.

Now the lettuce has gone the neoliberal dream is over, and with Corbyn and his followers in the wilderness, the socialist dream is dead as well.

So we've ended up with the worst of all worlds.

 

[west didsblue]

I think that anyone with a brain has come to realise that to make Brexit work it’s got be made to look like being a member. A customs arrangement that looks very much like the customs union and market access that’s as close as possible as being equivalent to being a single market member. Also immigration arrangements that are effectively freedom of movement. Might as well harmonise standards as well we’re at it. Then in a few years we can rejoin once enough people realise that we’re rule takers rather than rule makers.