How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

In the parlance of the young, I suspect Europe was only one ‘horcrux’ and that the other six ‘horcruxes’ remain…

You could be right but I hold on to the fact that, over 6 years after the referendum, their go to is still EU red tape which suggests it’s still well out in front of their hobgoblin chart…

 

[Zinchilla]

You could be right but I hold on to the fact that, over 6 years after the referendum, their go to is still EU red tape which suggests it’s still well out in front of their hobgoblin chart…

That and the Jeremy Corbyn references. Another horcrux now Gabriel has got me thinking

 

[Gabriel]

You could be right but I hold on to the fact that, over 6 years after the referendum, their go to is still EU red tape which suggests it’s still well out in front of their hobgoblin chart…

It’s going to be increasingly difficult for the Conservatives to play the EU bogeyman card the longer the country remains stuck in low growth and the average person is becoming manifestly poorer.

As I pointed out elsewhere, the only thing that will shatter the Conservative Party is electoral reform, yet it is also the thing that would probably shatter the Labour Party, which is why neither party wishes to address it. Much like their unwillingness to address Brexit publicly as a self-inflicted disaster, they both put party preservation ahead of the public good.

 

[bluethrunthru]

You could be right but I hold on to the fact that, over 6 years after the referendum, their go to is still EU red tape which suggests it’s still well out in front of their hobgoblin chart…

Don't forget the other Go To - vaccines

 

[Gabriel]

Don't forget the other Go To - vaccines

All interviewers need to persist like this, but even more forcibly, and insist they talk about the present, not allow them to talk about the future with their waffle about opportunities and possibilities. The same fluff is being floated by Labour. There are reasons why the UK isn’t those things already and it wasn’t EU membership that was holding them back. Arguably, the whack to trade makes fulfilling these pipe dreams even harder.

 

[SilverFox2]

All interviewers need to persist like this, but even more forcibly, and insist they talk about the present, not allow them to talk about the future with their waffle about opportunities and possibilities. The same fluff is being floated by Labour. There are reasons why the UK isn’t those things already and it wasn’t EU membership that was holding them back. Arguably, the whack to trade makes fulfilling these pipe dreams even harder.

I suppose the problems now look worse but is it fair to say that virtually all MPs have little experience in what used to be our Forte ie lawmaking.
By that I mean since EU membership they had others lawmaking and they criticized and simply tweaked slightly wherever.
Are they really a cross section of UK population or are they career politicians looking to join any Party they feel will advance their career?

 

[Bodicoteblue]

Don't forget the other Go To - vaccines

All these interviews with brexiters are sounding more and more like the Dead Parrot sketch.
’No, it’s not dead , it’s just not being implemented properly-beautiful plumage though’

 

[Gabriel]

I suppose the problems now look worse but is it fair to say that virtually all MPs have little experience in what used to be our Forte ie lawmaking.
By that I mean since EU membership they had others lawmaking and they criticized and simply tweaked slightly wherever.
Are they really a cross section of UK population or are they career politicians looking to join any Party they feel will advance their career?

I largely agree with that. Parliament had become a secondary tier but only for some legislation, yet it had also become, because of its archaic structure, abuses, and comparatively poor pay- alongside party bandwagons, stuffed with lower-rate minds. The legacy of this is why the country finds itself now in such a jam.

 

[somapop]

It’s becoming clear that the elephant is starting to titillate & expose more like a 70’s club stripper.

Interviewers are far more brazen with discussing, nay dissecting the lack of perceived benefits.
(Perhaps not the BBC yet).

It’s a good start.

 

[Vic]

As I posted previously I think we all have to take some responsibility for what happened. I think many who wanted to Remain were too complacent that we would. It was such a fundamental decision I wish I’d got more involved to try and ensure the outcome I wanted that was so important to our children’s future. I should have tried to persuade more people close to me not to vote Leave. My girlfriend persuaded her mum to vote Remain at the last minute; I wish I’d done, or at least tried that, with more people. People didn’t arrive at this decision in a vacuum. Plenty were fixed in how they were going to vote but a decent chunk were open to persuasion. I take (some) responsibility for failing to do enough to avoid people around me voting for this insanity. If I’d thought a Leave vote was a genuine prospect then I’d have done more. So, to that extent I take responsibility.

I gave up trying to persuade individuals. They were just getting crap from the media. You couldn't compete with that.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I gave up trying to persuade individuals. They were just getting crap from the media. You couldn't compete with that.

Probably a bit easier to compete if you’re paid to argue for a living.

 

[Vic]

I also think that if someone turns up at the polling station and kicks up a rumpus, they’ll probably be allowed to vote.

Good grief.

Do you really not understand the Tories?

 

[Vic]

I suppose the problems now look worse but is it fair to say that virtually all MPs have little experience in what used to be our Forte ie lawmaking.
By that I mean since EU membership they had others lawmaking and they criticized and simply tweaked slightly wherever.
Are they really a cross section of UK population or are they career politicians looking to join any Party they feel will advance their career?

Plenty of legislation was nothing to do with the EU.

 

[Gabriel]

Good grief.

Do you really not understand the Tories?

Actually, Vic, on that point I’m paraphrasing what a Tory MP said on the BBC this week. I know that they want to continue to feed the myth that Labour is winning seats with hordes of fictitious British-Asian voters, and I also know that they suspect younger voters will be deterred if it involves proving their identity, but I also know that plenty will be waived through who just point at the list and say that’s me!

 

[BrianW]

The EU only ever created laws in certain areas, mainly trade and standards related.

There are vast areas of legislation for which the UK Parliament always was wholly responsible and (frankly) more than enough to keep such inadequate actors fully occupied.

For example:

The sentence for burglary could have been increased to a minimum of 10 years. No EU involvement.
The state pension could have been doubled. No EU involvement.
We could have abolished and replaced the House of Lords. No EU involvement.
We could have reformed the education system in any way we chose. No EU involvement.
We could have introduced PR voting. No EU involvement.
We could have reformed local government in any way we chose. No EU involvement.
We could have made it legal to piss in the gutter. No EU involvement.

I could go on, adding to this list, almost to infinity. The EU was, and remains, a convenient excuse for UK politicians. The fact is most of them are lazy shits who can't be arsed to do anything much apart from talk twaddle and stuff themselves in their subsidised restaurants while they pass their time away before drawing the best pension available in the UK, bar none.

In fact, our politicians are so lazy and useless that despite the fact it was a matter of public concern, they made no attempt whatever to control EU immigration even though EU law allowed them to ask anyone not in a job or self-maintaining to leave after three months. Too much trouble, you see.

 

[Gabriel]

The EU only ever created laws in certain areas, mainly trade and standards related.

There are vast areas of legislation for which the UK Parliament always was wholly responsible and (frankly) more than enough to keep such inadequate actors fully occupied.

For example:

The sentence for burglary could have been increased to a minimum of 10 years. No EU involvement.
The state pension could have been doubled. No EU involvement.
We could have abolished and replaced the House of Lords. No EU involvement.
We could have reformed the education system in any way we chose. No EU involvement.
We could have introduced PR voting. No EU involvement.
We could have reformed local government in any way we chose. No EU involvement.
We could have made it legal to piss in the gutter. No EU involvement.

I could go on, adding to this list, almost to infinity. The EU was, and remains, a convenient excuse for UK politicians. The fact is most of them are lazy shits who can't be arsed to do anything much apart from talk twaddle and stuff themselves in their subsidised restaurants while they pass their time away before drawing the best pension available in the UK, bar none.

In fact, our politicians are so lazy and useless that despite the fact it was a matter of public concern, they made no attempt whatever to control EU immigration even though EU law allowed them to ask anyone not in a job or self-maintaining to leave after three months. Too much trouble, you see.

Indeed.

‘Tis little wonder, then, that the moment they have to start taking major decisions themselves, things go mammaries skywards.

 

[Bodicoteblue]

The EU only ever created laws in certain areas, mainly trade and standards related.

There are vast areas of legislation for which the UK Parliament always was wholly responsible and (frankly) more than enough to keep such inadequate actors fully occupied.

For example:

The sentence for burglary could have been increased to a minimum of 10 years. No EU involvement.
The state pension could have been doubled. No EU involvement.
We could have abolished and replaced the House of Lords. No EU involvement.
We could have reformed the education system in any way we chose. No EU involvement.
We could have introduced PR voting. No EU involvement.
We could have reformed local government in any way we chose. No EU involvement.
We could have made it legal to piss in the gutter. No EU involvement.

I could go on, adding to this list, almost to infinity. The EU was, and remains, a convenient excuse for UK politicians. The fact is most of them are lazy shits who can't be arsed to do anything much apart from talk twaddle and stuff themselves in their subsidised restaurants while they pass their time away before drawing the best pension available in the UK, bar none.

In fact, our politicians are so lazy and useless that despite the fact it was a matter of public concern, they made no attempt whatever to control EU immigration even though EU law allowed them to ask anyone not in a job or self-maintaining to leave after three months. Too much trouble, you see.

The fact that the points you make are so diametrically opposed to the lies and hysterical nonsense of the brexiteers, demonstrates just how easily people were persuaded to believe fantasy and make-believe from those who would use it to gain and retain power.
Every fact you’ve mentioned was easily checked, but of course it wasn’t- certainly not by the media- nor were they mentioned by those who knew that exploitation of these fallacies would result in election victory, by preying on fear.
No need to come up with such tiresome things as policies, when you can simply point to foreigners, be they in Brussels or in a rubber boat, and tell us that it‘s all their fault your life is shit.
It’s taken time but it is beginning to look like something has shifted and the dreaded ‘b’ word is now being mentioned in the media, much to the consternation of our dear government.

 

[Gabriel]

The fact that the points you make are so diametrically opposed to the lies and hysterical nonsense of the brexiteers, demonstrates just how easily people were persuaded to believe fantasy and make-believe from those who would use it to gain and retain power.
Every fact you’ve mentioned was easily checked, but of course it wasn’t- certainly not by the media- nor were they mentioned by those who knew that exploitation of these fallacies would result in election victory, by preying on fear.
No need to come up with such tiresome things as policies, when you can simply point to foreigners, be they in Brussels or in a rubber boat, and tell us that it‘s all their fault your life is shit.
It’s taken time but it is beginning to look like something has shifted and the dreaded ‘b’ word is now being mentioned in the media, much to the consternation of our dear government.

The thing to watch and listen for now is just how emboldened the media become. It won’t happen immediately, but in the coming weeks I expect to hear much more questioning and many more specific ‘promises’ unearthed and pinned on MPs. Hunt has been in the frontline for the last few weeks, but it will now be time for some of the ‘true Brexiteers‘ to go in front of the cameras and, as is said, own their excrement.

 

[SilverFox2]

Indeed.

‘Tis little wonder, then, that the moment they have to start taking major decisions themselves, things go mammaries skywards.

I wonder why non EU Llegislation has been neglected until now?
Has it been deliberately left alone for whatever reason or maybe obscured by Civil Servants as something to leave alone?
Whilst finance usually rules everything I fear there is much more waiting ro bite us in our much more changed world.

 

[lust overlord]

Intresting poll on GB News...the far right gammon channel. Viewers would not vote for Brexit so does this suggest that it was Left leaning voters voted for Brexit all along?

This morning on GB News Breakfast, we're asking... If given the chance again would you vote FOR or AGAINST Brexit? Freeview 236, Sky 515, Virgin 604 GB News YouTube: https://bit.ly/3vAYaw0

• 
  FOR
  45%
• 
  AGAINST
  55%

18,700 votes·Final results.

There were certainly some left leaning Brexit voters.
More likely imo,a larger part of the Brexit vote was made up of people who don't do News or current affairs channels.
The latter is based on people I worked with,who tended to get their "news" off social media or from popular newspapers.