How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

inbetween said:
It sums it up on here when people are literally wishing on stupid processes resulting in queues which will also make it more difficult for themselves when they come to travel. Maybe some of you like me will consider going elsewhere and who loses then?

I think this is why I've stayed out of the Brexit debate recently and will continue to do so, it's as toxic and pointless as ever.
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We lose then. We lose. As our freedom of movement has been affected by this absolute shit stain that is Brexit.
 
inbetween said:
Why should it be a benefit of being in the club? We weren't in Schengen so it's not like we got away with passport-less travel in the EU anyway. Other than getting a stamp I can't really see the difference, I've queued before we left and I'm still queueing.

My observation is just that it was a pain in the arse to travel to Germany recently whilst meanwhile it wasn't a pain in the arse to travel to elsewhere in the world where we aren't in 'clubs' either.

Making you queue to get a sticker in your passport just seemed odd, are non-EU nationals queuing up to get stickers in their passports for flights from Germany to every non-EU country? I somehow doubt it. Maybe in the future when the EU goes electronic it will be easier for us, I don't know?

It sums it up on here when people are literally wishing on stupid processes resulting in queues which will also make it more difficult for themselves when they come to travel. Maybe some of you like me will consider going elsewhere and who loses then?

I think this is why I've stayed out of the Brexit debate recently and will continue to do so, it's as toxic and pointless as ever.
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"...it was a pain in the arse to travel to Germany recently whilst meanwhile it wasn't a pain in the arse to travel to elsewhere in the world where we aren't in 'clubs' either..."

So having to queue for immigration control to get into the USA is the norm so now having to do it to get into the EU is a stupid process which we hadn't had to do for 50 years? I see why you've stated out of the debate.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Acceptable price to pay for what?
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I think - if I’m understanding this- he’s saying that the inconvenience and stupidity of brexit is worth it because it means we can have brexit with all its associated inconvenience and stupidity which is worth it because it‘s what they voted for.
Delving not too deeply between the lines, it also seems that he’s blaming brexit voters for the existence of brexit and its associated inconvenience and stupidity.
Not before time either.
 
inbetween said:
Why should it be a benefit of being in the club? We weren't in Schengen so it's not like we got away with passport-less travel in the EU anyway. Other than getting a stamp I can't really see the difference, I've queued before we left and I'm still queueing.

My observation is just that it was a pain in the arse to travel to Germany recently whilst meanwhile it wasn't a pain in the arse to travel to elsewhere in the world where we aren't in 'clubs' either.

Making you queue to get a sticker in your passport just seemed odd, are non-EU nationals queuing up to get stickers in their passports for flights from Germany to every non-EU country? I somehow doubt it. Maybe in the future when the EU goes electronic it will be easier for us, I don't know?

It sums it up on here when people are literally wishing on stupid processes resulting in queues which will also make it more difficult for themselves when they come to travel. Maybe some of you like me will consider going elsewhere and who loses then?

I think this is why I've stayed out of the Brexit debate recently and will continue to do so, it's as toxic and pointless as ever.
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I used to regularly visit the USA, and most times had to queue for quite a long time at immigration. Sometimes it was hours, sometimes not too bad. The EU is now exactly the same, whereas previously it was rare that any passport control holdups were more than a few minutes.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Acceptable price to pay for what?
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he hasn't thought that far
inbetween said:
Why should it be a benefit of being in the club? We weren't in Schengen so it's not like we got away with passport-less travel in the EU anyway. Other than getting a stamp I can't really see the difference, I've queued before we left and I'm still queueing.

My observation is just that it was a pain in the arse to travel to Germany recently whilst meanwhile it wasn't a pain in the arse to travel to elsewhere in the world where we aren't in 'clubs' either.

Making you queue to get a sticker in your passport just seemed odd, are non-EU nationals queuing up to get stickers in their passports for flights from Germany to every non-EU country? I somehow doubt it. Maybe in the future when the EU goes electronic it will be easier for us, I don't know?

It sums it up on here when people are literally wishing on stupid processes resulting in queues which will also make it more difficult for themselves when they come to travel. Maybe some of you like me will consider going elsewhere and who loses then?

I think this is why I've stayed out of the Brexit debate recently and will continue to do so, it's as toxic and pointless as ever.
Click to expand...

Membership of the EU came with a degree of trust between all member states. When travelling abroad on say a flight or a package certain info was taken at the point of booking and held on record therefore you were simply required to wave the passport to show that you have one. In the event of there being any issues you and your next of kin can be traced back via the means by which you got there so say you fell off a balcony and all they could find in your room was a Jet 2 tickets they can trace you back via the info Jet 2 held. It had nothing to do with Schengen but did apply across the EU.

When Frosty the Showman did his negotiating he made sure that inserted in the WA was the current new requirements - reason being they thought if we just walked through passport control at say Alicante people would not FEEL that we had "taken back control" - and thats what Brexit is about - feelings and belief - they have never really set out goals for Brexit just airy fairy hopes and wishes and asked you to believe.
 
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BobbyJohnstone said:
Yup. My mums family moved to Co Londonderry in the 1600s from NE Scotchland.
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My condolences to your family. You do know that at one point in the 1600’s under either James I or Charles I (I could look it up) Scots Presbyterians suffered similarly to Catholics in the banning of their worship rights. Also not being allowed hold office.
I think it was Chas who wanted to enforce his place as sovereign and head of the Church of England. He favoured the more pomp and ceremony of Church of Ireland which Presbyterians saw as more akin to Popishness.

The history of English rule in Ireland has always been sectarian since the reformation and particularly from Elizabeth I onwards.
The 1600’s in particular were barbaric with insane savagery, on both sides it must be said, in the name of religion and the power it wielded.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
My condolences to your family. You do know that at one point in the 1600’s under either James I or Charles I (I could look it up) Scots Presbyterians suffered similarly to Catholics in the banning of their worship rights. Also not being allowed hold office.
I think it was Chas who wanted to enforce his place as sovereign and head of the Church of England. He favoured the more pomp and ceremony of Church of Ireland which Presbyterians saw as more akin to Popishness.

The history of English rule in Ireland has always been sectarian since the reformation and particularly from Elizabeth I onwards.
The 1600’s in particular were barbaric with insane savagery, on both sides it must be said, in the name of religion and the power it wielded.
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My mums family, I didn’t do anything. Fwiw my mum, from a staunch family votes SNP. I’ve seen her walk up to Ian Paisley and rip into him. Both sides of my family have had spilled blood in the troubles (what a whimsical name). Going there as a teen and being asked by 10 yo kids if I liked the pope or Queen made me realise that place has no hope.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
I don't know. Lots of pain but you are ok now as a nation. Bono says so.
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I think Coatigan is closer to the truth than we think.
The real proof of how far we have come will be when we down south have to make a grown up decision about what a United future would look like.

Never mind the must say NO looneys up north, we have enough of our own still knocking about, I fear.
 
BobbyJohnstone said:
My mums family, I didn’t do anything. Fwiw my mum, from a staunch family votes SNP. I’ve seen her walk up to Ian Paisley and rip into him. Both sides of my family have had spilled blood in the troubles (what a whimsical name). Going there as a teen and being asked by 10 yo kids if I liked the pope or Queen made me realise that place has no hope.
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And that’s how it seemed and yet as John Hume said in 1998 when asked about the talks that seemed like they were falling apart;

I am neither optimistic nor pessimistic. I’m hopeful.

I very much doubt I’ll see a United Ireland in my lifetime, but who knows? What does a United Ireland even mean anymore? None of us know.
 
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