How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

blueparrot said:
What do we have to give up to get access that’s so bad ?
Or put another way what did we gain when we left the single market ?
By the way my parents both regret / regretted ( in my late fathers case)their leave vote quite a while back realising they bought the lies and accepted they should have listened to their children and grandchildren. Not Johnson / Farage/ Daily Mail
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I guess what rankles for them was having the UK supreme court as the final vote on the application of UK law, arranging trade with other (in particular commonwealth countries), stopping EU criminals from entering the UK under free movement, ending gross EU contributions, concerns over Turkey joining and what that would mean.

I'm happy to remain but I could definitely see some benefits if I'm not blinkered. From my side, stupid things like not being able to remove VAT on women's sanitary products (now removed as of January 2021).. this control of domestic VAT policy is just bonkers considering the strength of feeling that this was wrong in the UK. We can make those decisions quickly, without having to enact change in a huge bureaucratic machine.
Also - farming subsidies are completely broken and massively damaging to the environment. We now have the option to (and are looking at) how we repurpose those to reward farmers for doing the right thing, rewilding, growing the crops a low carbon economy needs etc.

These are small in the grand scheme of the benefits of EU membership, but I can understand why frustration builds.
 
RabidCity said:
Unfettered? Who would oppose?
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You said ‘everyone’ is happy with access to the single market. That is plainly incorrect, hence why we are no longer in it. Plenty of militant Brexiteers were, and remain opposed to us being associated with the SM, for ideological, if not economic grounds. Some people are instinctively opposed to being tied to the EU by any means.

They are, of course, mad cunts.
 
RabidCity said:
I think everyone is happy with access to the single market. It's what we have to give up to get that access that will cause a problem. Perhaps after enough thinking (and the older generations like my parents who feel betrayed by the 70's vote) not being around, we will come back to it as a nation. I don't think my generation are as patriotic.

Slow steady change in that direction is okay with me.
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Isn't the patriotic thing to want the best for your country? That was being on the EU.
 
RabidCity said:
I guess what rankles for them was having the UK supreme court as the final vote on the application of UK law, arranging trade with other (in particular commonwealth countries), stopping EU criminals from entering the UK under free movement, ending gross EU contributions, concerns over Turkey joining and what that would mean.

I'm happy to remain but I could definitely see some benefits if I'm not blinkered. From my side, stupid things like not being able to remove VAT on women's sanitary products (now removed as of January 2021).. this control of domestic VAT policy is just bonkers considering the strength of feeling that this was wrong in the UK. We can make those decisions quickly, without having to enact change in a huge bureaucratic machine.
Also - farming subsidies are completely broken and massively damaging to the environment. We now have the option to (and are looking at) how we repurpose those to reward farmers for doing the right thing, rewilding, growing the crops a low carbon economy needs etc.

These are small in the grand scheme of the benefits of EU membership, but I can understand why frustration builds.
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No doubt why we're not following EU rules on putting shit in rivers.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
tbf, if May’s exit proposal had passed with a majority in the Commons then there would have been a FTZ so to characterise it as a lie is applying some mental gymnastics.

That said, that vote should not and cannot provide any excuse for the hard Brexit we ended up with. I would say that was far more contrary to our national interest than the vote to leave itself - not just because of the associated economic damage, but also because it divided the nation further, which was the last thing the country needed.
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No, it was a specific promise that if we left we would still be in a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border. It wasn't conditional on a deal.

"WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE VOTE LEAVE?....

"There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it. We will take back the power to negotiate our own trade deals."
 
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