How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

blueinsa said:
In a thread of constant bad news, let’s celebrate BMW announcing a multi million investment into its Oxford plant with news that 4000 jobs will be secured building its next ten mini.

Great news for the British car industry I’m sure everyone will agree?
Click to expand...

Not going to get involved in the on-going Brexit debate. It will go on forever.

I did vote leave.

What I will point out is this.

We were told constantly by Remain via 'Project Fear', which was nothing more than political scare mongering throughout the referendum, that the British Car industry will be decimated, with car production being transferred to Europe, with the loss of 1000's of car manufacturing jobs. That hasn't happen. Instead car manufacturers have remained in the UK, invested billions in the UK car manufacturing industry, and created 1000's of new jobs.
 
I do take a great interest in this thread. I look on in fascination most the time, realising that the accusations from some that it is an echo chamber, does have some merit, in so far as the thread title alone kind of steers the direction of ‘debate’, when debate lasts long enough to stop pointing the finger at each other, etc etc. You know where I’m going with that.

But, I do try to gauge how things are different on the ground for people, just from the snippets that are picked up.
I was over in England myself in July and will probably be back at the end of September, but my own circumstances over there kind of cocooned me from making any sort of objective appraisal of any differences since before the pandemic and Brexit.

If you stick with the thread title then I assume you are accepting there is a mess. How do you fix it hasn’t got past get these corrupt Tories out. But from the outside looking in one point that some of you have been highlighting, is far more important in the long term and something you are preaching to the converted over here. Your electoral system and the class acceptance will produce the same thing over and over again.

The ‘Average Englishman’ if there is such a thing, in my experience is a sound individual. Usually logical, reliable, trustworthy, has a never say die spirit, and by and large has a moral compass. You know what’s right.

Now think to yourselves, does that paragraph above bare any similarities to the governance you are used to and the treatment that is normal in the political classes and the system itself.

I go sparingly in here and believe me, I do hold back, as I realise what the hell do you want to listen to an Irishman, a Dub at that. What do we know?

But I’ll put this RTE article here for anyone who does want an outside perspective. I don’t know how much faith I put in surveys but there were a few points surprised me and caught my interest. Some of you may be interested.

www.rte.ie

British decline underscored by recent Irish development

Public confidence in the UK appears to be at a particularly low ebb in recent times as the government battles the cost-of-living crisis.
www.rte.ie www.rte.ie
 
blueinsa said:
In a thread of constant bad news, let’s celebrate BMW announcing a multi million investment into its Oxford plant with news that 4000 jobs will be secured building its next ten mini.

Great news for the British car industry I’m sure everyone will agree?
Click to expand...
Yes it’s great news but I’m not sure why you’ve put it on the Brexit thread. It’s an investment in a long established car plant that looks like it has happened in spite of Brexit rather than because of it. You do wonder whether the same level of state aid would have been necessary had we been in the single market.
 
jrb said:
Not going to get involved in the on-going Brexit debate. It will go on forever.

I did vote leave.

What I will point out is this.

We were told constantly by Remain via 'Project Fear', which was nothing more than political scare mongering throughout the referendum, that the British Car industry will be decimated, with car production being transferred to Europe, with the loss of 1000's of car manufacturing jobs. That hasn't happen. Instead car manufacturers have remained in the UK, invested billions in the UK car manufacturing industry, and created 1000's of new jobs.
Click to expand...
Yet car production is still 30% down on pre pandemic (pre-Brexit) figures, and that’s after a recent boost from supply chain issues regarding chip availability being resolved.
 
only a body the size of the EU can resist the wealth and influence of the far right, which was the driving force behind brexit, backed to the hilt by big oil,big pharma, multinationals venture capitalists, vulture capitalists, et al. Politics ? nah insatiable greed for power and wealth, and therefore the arch-enemy of democracy. Russia sees the EU as a barrier to annexing Europe, China sees it as a trade threat, both backed brexit, two major communist countries aligning with the far far right, ?? The world's major religions are implacably opposed to stemming an ever-increasing population explosion in a world facng dwindling fresh water shortages, for reasons that they hide behind fairy-tale like scriptures, never saying the bleedin' obvious, "more babies, more power"
Where's that fiery comet when you need it, ffs.
 
yerwot? said:
only a body the size of the EU can resist the wealth and influence of the far right, which was the driving force behind brexit, backed to the hilt by big oil,big pharma, multinationals venture capitalists, vulture capitalists, et al. Politics ? nah insatiable greed for power and wealth, and therefore the arch-enemy of democracy. Russia sees the EU as a barrier to annexing Europe, China sees it as a trade threat, both backed brexit, two major communist countries aligning with the far far right, ?? The world's major religions are implacably opposed to stemming an ever-increasing population explosion in a world facng dwindling fresh water shortages, for reasons that they hide behind fairy-tale like scriptures, never saying the bleedin' obvious, "more babies, more power"
Where's that fiery comet when you need it, ffs.
Click to expand...
 
jrb said:
Not going to get involved in the on-going Brexit debate. It will go on forever.

I did vote leave.

What I will point out is this.

We were told constantly by Remain via 'Project Fear', which was nothing more than political scare mongering throughout the referendum, that the British Car industry will be decimated, with car production being transferred to Europe, with the loss of 1000's of car manufacturing jobs. That hasn't happen. Instead car manufacturers have remained in the UK, invested billions in the UK car manufacturing industry, and created 1000's of new jobs.
Click to expand...

The car industry stated that to survive in the UK it needed a tariff free deal. It got that via the TCA. It also got financial handouts from the UK Govt. The threat of imposing tariffs means that the EU has a chokehold on the UK given the car industry’s importance to the UK. In effect we ceded power and control to the EU. And that is what the bloc does. Exert leverage on non-EU countries in its orbit. The EU specifically threatened us with car tariffs unless we resolved the NI situation to their satisfaction, hence the Windsor deal which the NI Unionists see as ‘betrayal’.

This again played out in the current situation. From E&Y

‘Regulation continues to be a dominant factor in the future of the automotive industry in the UK. If the Zero Emission Vehicle (ZEV) mandate comes into effect as proposed in 2024, it will create significant challenges for manufacturers to comply with while presenting the possibility of financial penalties. Changes to the Rules of Origin in the Brexit trade & cooperation agreement are also planned to come into effect in 2024, which stipulate that 45 percent of an Electric Vehicle's value must be sourced in the U.K. or elsewhere in Europe from 2024 to avoid export tariffs.’

We will struggle to meet these agreed rules of origin, hence the push to delay them, so again we have created a situation where we are relying on the EU to help us out.

This is not ’taking back control’, it is ceding control and is exactly what you voted for. Personally, I don’t care that Brussels has the upper hand with the UK. It was always inevitable that would be the direction of travel and that we would be permanently anchored in the EU economic orbit with no real say in the shaping of the EU and Europe going forward.

In short you vote for stupid, you get stupid. I‘m in this now for the lols.
 
yerwot? said:
only a body the size of the EU can resist the wealth and influence of the far right, which was the driving force behind brexit, backed to the hilt by big oil,big pharma, multinationals venture capitalists, vulture capitalists, et al. Politics ? nah insatiable greed for power and wealth, and therefore the arch-enemy of democracy. Russia sees the EU as a barrier to annexing Europe, China sees it as a trade threat, both backed brexit, two major communist countries aligning with the far far right, ?? The world's major religions are implacably opposed to stemming an ever-increasing population explosion in a world facng dwindling fresh water shortages, for reasons that they hide behind fairy-tale like scriptures, never saying the bleedin' obvious, "more babies, more power"
Where's that fiery comet when you need it, ffs.
Click to expand...
I don't know about Russia, however, of the Chinese people I speak to who know about brexit believe that it was a stupid thing for the UK to do and just say "Why"?
They are at a loss.
 
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