How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

They probably would have us back, but on their terms and not the very favourable terms that we had before (opt outs, no joining the Euros, rebates etc. etc.). As has been mentioned before - we've fucking blown it.
I’m not sure it’s a straightforward as that, with the veto.

I can’t see every singe member state being happy with a vacillating, churlish member - where a significant proportion of the population are instinctively opposed to membership and will spend all the time post rejoining tediously moaning about straight bananas. We’ll be seen as an unwelcome and unnecessary distraction that isn’t worth the mither in many quarters.

The only way I can see it happening is if there’s some sort of supermajority for rejoining, along with the surrender of the pound and the other matters to which you refer which I think is virtually impossible for the foreseeable.

The referendum vote suitably demonstrated how public opinion is divided on this subject, namely broadly 50/50 - and I simply don’t think a mealy-mouthed equivocal 52/48 vote to rejoin is going to **** the mustard, I’m afraid.

Basically there’s too many selfish, stupid cunts in this country to make the chances of rejoining anything other than vanishingly small.

We really have fucking blown it.
 
I think it's chiefly an English problem, to be honest. And I speak as someone with English, Welsh, and Irish blood with a smattering of various others, including Scots.

The English have a (largely) unconscious belief that they are superior. It's a bit like Adolf's Herrenvolk theory, except that it's not openly spoken about, but is more seen in assumptions. Everything we have is either the best, or the oldest, or both. Our parliament is the 'Mother of Parliaments' to give but one example.

Those damned foreigners can teach us nothing. We've thrashed most of them at one time or the other. (Bar the Dutch in 1688, but then they were sort of us. We welcomed them as they were good Prods helping us get rid of a Catholic Tyrant, so it's OK.)

The very idea that we could look at certain aspects of other countries and improve ourselves by copying them is absolute anathema. Heresy! We know best.

So the idea that foreigners should 'tell us what to do' is outrageous. (That's our job in reverse.) And that's exactly how the EU was presented. 'Foreigners telling us what to do.' Complete bollocks of course, since the EU only acts within its competences and we, the UK, were on the winning side on well over 90% of the votes. But it was still 'foreigners telling us what to do.'

The way forward is to break this attitude. And God alone knows how far down we have to go to achieve that. I hope not the equivalent of Berlin 1945.

My hope is that the younger generation(s) are not as infected by this attitude as their elders and that gradually their desire to be a modern, civilised country that no longer lives on imperial 'glories' will triumph. Whether I live to see the day is another matter.
 
I’m not sure it’s a straightforward as that, with the veto.

I can’t see every singe member state being happy with a vacillating, churlish member - where a significant proportion of the population are instinctively opposed to membership and will spend all the time post rejoining tediously moaning about straight bananas. We’ll be seen as an unwelcome and unnecessary distraction that isn’t worth the mither in many quarters.

The only way I can see it happening is if there’s some sort of supermajority for rejoining, along with the surrender of the pound and the other matters to which you refer which I think is virtually impossible for the foreseeable.

The referendum vote suitably demonstrated how public opinion is divided on this subject, namely broadly 50/50 - and I simply don’t think a mealy-mouthed equivocal 52/48 vote to rejoin is going to **** the mustard, I’m afraid.

Basically there’s too many selfish, stupid cunts in this country to make the chances of rejoining anything other than vanishingly small.

We really have fucking blown it.
It’s not 50/50 anymore but I agree with the super majority concept

Our rejoining will be by stealth, bit by bit,more alignment SM & CU and as the demographics change, it will take a few years
 
I think it's chiefly an English problem, to be honest. And I speak as someone with English, Welsh, and Irish blood with a smattering of various others, including Scots.

The English have a (largely) unconscious belief that they are superior. It's a bit like Adolf's Herrenvolk theory, except that it's not openly spoken about, but is more seen in assumptions. Everything we have is either the best, or the oldest, or both. Our parliament is the 'Mother of Parliaments' to give but one example.

Those damned foreigners can teach us nothing. We've thrashed most of them at one time or the other. (Bar the Dutch in 1688, but then they were sort of us. We welcomed them as they were good Prods helping us get rid of a Catholic Tyrant, so it's OK.)

The very idea that we could look at certain aspects of other countries and improve ourselves by copying them is absolute anathema. Heresy! We know best.

So the idea that foreigners should 'tell us what to do' is outrageous. (That's our job in reverse.) And that's exactly how the EU was presented. 'Foreigners telling us what to do.' Complete bollocks of course, since the EU only acts within its competences and we, the UK, were on the winning side on well over 90% of the votes. But it was still 'foreigners telling us what to do.'

The way forward is to break this attitude. And God alone knows how far down we have to go to achieve that. I hope not the equivalent of Berlin 1945.

My hope is that the younger generation(s) are not as infected by this attitude as their elders and that gradually their desire to be a modern, civilised country that no longer lives on imperial 'glories' will triumph. Whether I live to see the day is another matter.
The citizens of most countries tend to believe that their home is the best (it is, after all, where everything you know and love comes from). You only need to look at the US to see very similar attitudes where they instinctively believe that everything in America is better and the rest of the world really wants to be American. However, coupled with the past glories of the British Empire this appears to have reached unreasonable levels in Britain with a complete disconnect from the actual reality of the modern world. Yes, we are a very large and important economy but we don't own the world any more and the current owners look down on us.
 
I think it's chiefly an English problem, to be honest. And I speak as someone with English, Welsh, and Irish blood with a smattering of various others, including Scots.

The English have a (largely) unconscious belief that they are superior. It's a bit like Adolf's Herrenvolk theory, except that it's not openly spoken about, but is more seen in assumptions. Everything we have is either the best, or the oldest, or both. Our parliament is the 'Mother of Parliaments' to give but one example.

Those damned foreigners can teach us nothing. We've thrashed most of them at one time or the other. (Bar the Dutch in 1688, but then they were sort of us. We welcomed them as they were good Prods helping us get rid of a Catholic Tyrant, so it's OK.)

The very idea that we could look at certain aspects of other countries and improve ourselves by copying them is absolute anathema. Heresy! We know best.

So the idea that foreigners should 'tell us what to do' is outrageous. (That's our job in reverse.) And that's exactly how the EU was presented. 'Foreigners telling us what to do.' Complete bollocks of course, since the EU only acts within its competences and we, the UK, were on the winning side on well over 90% of the votes. But it was still 'foreigners telling us what to do.'

The way forward is to break this attitude. And God alone knows how far down we have to go to achieve that. I hope not the equivalent of Berlin 1945.

My hope is that the younger generation(s) are not as infected by this attitude as their elders and that gradually their desire to be a modern, civilised country that no longer lives on imperial 'glories' will triumph. Whether I live to see the day is another matter.
As long as the country has a huge number of gullible idiots like the ones in the video below whose stupidity is exploited by an unscrupulous government with the assistance of the billionaire owners of the Mail, Sun, Express and GBN then nothing will change.
 
As long as the country has a huge number of gullible idiots like the ones in the video below whose stupidity is exploited by an unscrupulous government with the assistance of the billionaire owners of the Mail, Sun, Express and GBN then nothing will change.

The sight of those people huddled together outside precinct cafes is the second-most bleak sight to be replicated around the country.

Slightly ahead of a Wetherspoons garden before noon, but way behind the miserable, ill people huddled outside the main entrance of a hospital having a fag.
 
The citizens of most countries tend to believe that their home is the best (it is, after all, where everything you know and love comes from). You only need to look at the US to see very similar attitudes where they instinctively believe that everything in America is better and the rest of the world really wants to be American. However, coupled with the past glories of the British Empire this appears to have reached unreasonable levels in Britain with a complete disconnect from the actual reality of the modern world. Yes, we are a very large and important economy but we don't own the world any more and the current owners look down on us.
Maybe, but as @BrianW said it's far more prevalent in Englan than it is in Scotland or N. Ireland. Can't really say for Wales as I've spent little time there and have known very few Welsh people.
 
British culture is and always has been conservative with a small c, but in my experience you can say that for most countries, people like what they like and change is very difficult, we’ve never had to start again as most countries have, so things that would have been discarded (like the aristocracy) are still with us, we need sweeping modernisation of the whole country, including the legal system
 

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