How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

[Nightmare Walking]

Simply not going to happen for the foreseeable.

I don't think that is necessarily the case.
If Trump gets back in, we will be left with a choice. Either we get fully in bed with the Americans or we realign with the EU.
It may not be full membership with the EU. But, they will have to change their stance on the free market and freedom of movement, in exchange for us making our military and nuclear arsenal available to a EU military force.

Make no mistake, if Trump gets in, he will come gunning for us. Not only are we strategicly placed for keeping the EU in check (Which is perfect for his Russian overlords), but he will rape all our systems and democracy.

We cannot just exist in isolation. We need to align ourselves back with the EU. They might not need us from a financial perspective, but they need us from a protection perspective. We also need them, otherwise we are just going to wither and die. The way we are going, we will end up as the thinking man's North Korea.

The outlook has changed since the Brexit vote. We need to reconcile and resolve our differences. Britain is better off aligned with the EU and we are all safer if we work together.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

What Brexit mess ? Life’s never been better.
View attachment 107411

That's a rather OTT way to confirm that alcoholism is endemic in his family.

 

[BobKowalski]

I don't think that is necessarily the case.
If Trump gets back in, we will be left with a choice. Either we get fully in bed with the Americans or we realign with the EU.
It may not be full membership with the EU. But, they will have to change their stance on the free market and freedom of movement, in exchange for us making our military and nuclear arsenal available to a EU military force.

Make no mistake, if Trump gets in, he will come gunning for us. Not only are we strategicly placed for keeping the EU in check (Which is perfect for his Russian overlords), but he will rape all our systems and democracy.

We cannot just exist in isolation. We need to align ourselves back with the EU. They might not need us from a financial perspective, but they need us from a protection perspective. We also need them, otherwise we are just going to wither and die. The way we are going, we will end up as the thinking man's North Korea.

The outlook has changed since the Brexit vote. We need to reconcile and resolve our differences. Britain is better off aligned with the EU and we are all safer if we work together.

I agree with your basic argument, but the EU isn’t going to change its stance on the fundamental tenants of the EU to accommodate the UK. For starters, France has a larger nuclear deterrent than the UK and a larger conventional force. Italy has a larger army and comparable navy and airforce to UK.

That said, both parties are clearly better off aligned and working together as they do through NATO, so incorporating a Europe specific defence force is achievable if the political will is there. Von Leyen has already stated that if reelected as EU President the office of defence will be created.

Eastern European states will also be a big factor going forward. Poland has pledged to have the largest land army by 2026 with 300k troops.

I’m not disagreeing with the sentiment of your post, just the reality of what can be done and where the UK fits in the scheme of things.

 

[City Hobgoblin]

Unqualified dentists on the way soon to drill into your molars

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

What Brexit mess ? Life’s never been better.
View attachment 107411

Drinking pints of champagne is a British tradition?

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I don't think that is necessarily the case.
If Trump gets back in, we will be left with a choice. Either we get fully in bed with the Americans or we realign with the EU.
It may not be full membership with the EU. But, they will have to change their stance on the free market and freedom of movement, in exchange for us making our military and nuclear arsenal available to a EU military force.

Make no mistake, if Trump gets in, he will come gunning for us. Not only are we strategicly placed for keeping the EU in check (Which is perfect for his Russian overlords), but he will rape all our systems and democracy.

We cannot just exist in isolation. We need to align ourselves back with the EU. They might not need us from a financial perspective, but they need us from a protection perspective. We also need them, otherwise we are just going to wither and die. The way we are going, we will end up as the thinking man's North Korea.

The outlook has changed since the Brexit vote. We need to reconcile and resolve our differences. Britain is better off aligned with the EU and we are all safer if we work together.

Much of what you say makes absolute sense, and you’ve notably fallen short of saying we would resecure full membership, which is what I was referring to. For that to happen, I would say that two thirds of the UK population would have to support it, not least because our European neighbours would need assurances that we weren’t rejoining reluctantly or equivocally - and I think we need to endure considerably more pain to reach that threshold.

But worry not, because it’s coming!

 

[jim tolmies perm]

Drinking pints of champagne is a British tradition?

If you consider the behaviour of Etonian and Oxbridge YC toffs/cunts on a bender as typically British then yes..

 

[Nightmare Walking]

I agree with your basic argument, but the EU isn’t going to change its stance on the fundamental tenants of the EU to accommodate the UK. For starters, France has a larger nuclear deterrent than the UK and a larger conventional force. Italy has a larger army and comparable navy and airforce to UK.

That said, both parties are clearly better off aligned and working together as they do through NATO, so incorporating a Europe specific defence force is achievable if the political will is there. Von Leyen has already stated that if reelected as EU President the office of defence will be created.

Eastern European states will also be a big factor going forward. Poland has pledged to have the largest land army by 2026 with 300k troops.

I’m not disagreeing with the sentiment of your post, just the reality of what can be done and where the UK fits in the scheme of things.

Much of what you say makes absolute sense, and you’ve notably fallen short of saying we would resecure full membership, which is what I was referring to. For that to happen, I would say that two thirds of the UK population would have to support it, not least because our European neighbours would need assurances that we weren’t rejoining reluctantly or equivocally - and I think we need to endure considerably more pain to reach that threshold.

But worry not, because it’s coming!

I try to refrain from making long and rambling posts on the political forum as I am just a poor little farmer boy, from the South.

I understand that we do not possess the military might that we once did. But, we can still punch above our weight.

The EU will have a choice. Do they want an American puppet state sat right on their doorstep? Trump will not give a fuck about the EU. We have already seen how fucking stupid the British people are by voting to leave the EU. Unless the EU provide some reconcilitary tones, I would not put it past us to shoot ourselves in the foot by getting further into bed with the Americans.

From a political perspective, Britain moving further away from the EU is a disaster for both ourselves and the EU.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I agree with your basic argument, but the EU isn’t going to change its stance on the fundamental tenants of the EU to accommodate the UK. For starters, France has a larger nuclear deterrent than the UK and a larger conventional force. Italy has a larger army and comparable navy and airforce to UK.

That said, both parties are clearly better off aligned and working together as they do through NATO, so incorporating a Europe specific defence force is achievable if the political will is there. Von Leyen has already stated that if reelected as EU President the office of defence will be created.

Eastern European states will also be a big factor going forward. Poland has pledged to have the largest land army by 2026 with 300k troops.

I’m not disagreeing with the sentiment of your post, just the reality of what can be done and where the UK fits in the scheme of things.

Of all the tired tropes about the EU, resistance to the development of a European military force under the umbrella of the EU was the most short sighted. It’s been clear for over a decade that Western Europe faces a threat to its stability, institutions and territory from the East.

 

[BobKowalski]

I try to refrain from making long and rambling posts on the political forum as I am just a poor little farmer boy, from the South.

I understand that we do not possess the military might that we once did. But, we can still punch above our weight.

The EU will have a choice. Do they want an American puppet state sat right on their doorstep? Trump will not give a fuck about the EU. We have already seen how fucking stupid the British people are by voting to leave the EU. Unless the EU provide some reconcilitary tones, I would not put it past us to shoot ourselves in the foot by getting further into bed with the Americans.

From a political perspective, Britain moving further away from the EU is a disaster for both ourselves and the EU.

Don‘t refrain. I agree with a lot of what you say.

Trump doesn’t give a fuck about the EU, Europe or the UK for that matter. It is the UK that faces the unpalatable choice, not the EU. The EU does have the capacity and the heft to defend itself without the US and without the UK.

Europe should have heeded the warning about US reliability when Trump was in office. As ever it was slow to react. The EU has the economic capacity to arm Ukraine properly. Instead it took the easy option and we get caught out by US political instability.

I think Europe/EU will get there eventually, what is frustrating is the myopic thinking, especially in Germany, which impedes progress. I do think the UK will climb on board with a European defence force, if only because we will have no choice and with Labour in power it will ease the way.

I don’t think we are in disagreement on the fundamentals.