How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

gordondaviesmoustache said:
Of all the tired tropes about the EU, resistance to the development of a European military force under the umbrella of the EU was the most short sighted. It’s been clear for over a decade that Western Europe faces a threat to its stability, institutions and territory from the East.
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Couldn’t agree more. Short sighted barely does it justice.
 
In the long term, Europe will be cast adrift from the USA and the only option will be a rapprochement with Russia. In the even longer term, Russia and its satellites will be drawn into the European family. They have a lot to do, of course, in the way of political change, but it is in everyone's long-term interests. Think of the rehabilitation of Germany post-1945. It can be done if the will is there. The alternative is endless conflict.

We, the UK, would be very silly to stand apart from this and become a sort of Puerto Rico. I doubt we shall because in 10-15 years almost all the most fervid Brexiters will be dead.

Which brings me to today's mood music.

 
Nightmare Walking said:
I don't think that is necessarily the case.
If Trump gets back in, we will be left with a choice. Either we get fully in bed with the Americans or we realign with the EU.
It may not be full membership with the EU. But, they will have to change their stance on the free market and freedom of movement, in exchange for us making our military and nuclear arsenal available to a EU military force.

Make no mistake, if Trump gets in, he will come gunning for us. Not only are we strategicly placed for keeping the EU in check (Which is perfect for his Russian overlords), but he will rape all our systems and democracy.

We cannot just exist in isolation. We need to align ourselves back with the EU. They might not need us from a financial perspective, but they need us from a protection perspective. We also need them, otherwise we are just going to wither and die. The way we are going, we will end up as the thinking man's North Korea.

The outlook has changed since the Brexit vote. We need to reconcile and resolve our differences. Britain is better off aligned with the EU and we are all safer if we work together.
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I could see Trump renaiging the Polaris Sales Agreement if we look to cosy up to Europe.

Hopefully he won’t be in a position to and, if there is a God, he will be eating porridge for a considerable time
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Of all the tired tropes about the EU, resistance to the development of a European military force under the umbrella of the EU was the most short sighted. It’s been clear for over a decade that Western Europe faces a threat to its stability, institutions and territory from the East.
Click to expand...
I can remember during the brexit wars reading a speech by Tony Blair. I paraphrase but he said “Putting aside the economic, cultural and political reasons, Britain needs to stay in the EU for geopolitical reasons. Russia is becoming a threat. So is China. The USA is becoming more insular. The world is splintering into competing blocs. If Britain is not part of something it will have no power or influence”

I remember thinking he was sensationalising, and I clearly remember thinking “why’s he saying that about Russia?”

I’ve tried to look it up since but never found it. How right he was.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Of all the tired tropes about the EU, resistance to the development of a European military force under the umbrella of the EU was the most short sighted. It’s been clear for over a decade that Western Europe faces a threat to its stability, institutions and territory from the East.
Click to expand...


We held a veto against the formation of an EU army anyway
 
Didsbury Dave said:
I can remember during the brexit wars reading a speech by Tony Blair. I paraphrase but he said “Putting aside the economic, cultural and political reasons, Britain needs to stay in the EU for geopolitical reasons. Russia is becoming a threat. So is China. The USA is becoming more insular. The world is splintering into competing blocs. If Britain is not part of something it will have no power or influence”

I remember thinking he was sensationalising, and I clearly remember thinking “why’s he saying that about Russia?”

I’ve tried to look it up since but never found it. How right he was.
Click to expand...

People may not like Tony Blair but he is very intelligent and astute.
 
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