How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Don't fall for it. They are sick of the previous thread having the same six folk agreeing with each other and are trying to reignite the same bollocks here. @Moderating Team - can this be merged with the EU relations thread? Same shit, different shovel
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It might have developed that way but the thread title is a question. How would you answer it, yes or no?
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Single market isn’t the EU. Basket case or not Europe is still our biggest and closest customer. We need to be able to trade with it without all the bloody nonsense and red tape that Brexit has imposed.
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Brexit has not imposed any "red tape" on the UK - That was done by the UK to itself by voting to become a 3rd country - the days before the vote, the days before we finally severed ties those requirements were there its just that we didn't have to comply as a member state doesn't have to.
 
journolud said:
It might have developed that way but the thread title is a question. How would you answer it, yes or no?
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Obviously no. Brexit' is and always has been a load of bollocks forced through by the aristocracy that manipulated the (narrow) majority of thick racists that inhabit this country to carry their agenda.
 
NPBlue said:
The narrative is beginning to change. The government, well some of their politicians, and Grant Shapps in particular, are starting to peddle the 'can we rejoin the customs union' please.

He was an arch remainer and only got his job after he was promised a cabinet position if he agreed to toe the party line to 'get brexit done', as have other cabinet members like Lizz Truss.

Typical tory, 'the party is more important than the country' thinking, but hey ho.

They all know Brexit is going to be a fucking disaster for the country economically. They know there is no solution to the Irish Protocol as things stand at present, they have leaders from all sectors of industry telling them the extra costs and paperwork of exporting goods to our nearest neighbours are crippling them financially, and the government know full well what the effects of import controls will have on food supplies and other essential imports if they have to be instigated.

Brexit was a lie, but before the referendum, we were told we could have our cake and eat it.

Nigel Farage told the world it would be inconcevable we would leave the EU without a deaL, and we could stay in the customs union. Jacob Reese Mogg told us prices would come down as our abilty to strike independent trade deals would result in lower import tariffs.

All of that bullshit was backed by Russian money and organised by Cambridge Analyticta. Thay blitzed social media for two weeks before the referendum, and it was the only time leave was in front.

The brexit we have wasn't on the table in 2016. We have ended up with a deal that wasn't promised before 2016.
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Sadly this was the only version of brexit that there ever was on the table.
It just didn’t look like this.
It was all glittery and shiny and had red,white and blue ribbons tied on it with ‘sovereignty’, ’taking back control’, immigration’ and ‘cheaper food’ written all over them.
People said ’yes….we’ll have some of that!!’ and started peeling the wrapping off….
But oh dear! what’s this…. it turns out there was a turd in the box
But it’s our turd.
We voted for it.
 
Octavian said:
I think the reason so many on the remain side are shocked leave voters won’t admit it’s a failure because they’re measuring success and failure on completely different components.

The Brexit vote was an anti globalisation vote and that’s what leave voters cared about. Short-medium term economic damage isn’t the most important thing to them and whilst the leave campaign lied a lot about that, saying it would be good, your every day man in the street that voted for Brexit doesn’t have that at the top of what’s important.
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Anti globalisation vote??? I think you'd be hard pressed finding 1% of leave voters who would put that at the top of their list of reasons, unless it's a polite reference to MEGA (make England great again, thanks Donald) in which case you caught me, well done
 
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Vic said:
Gosh. I'm all right, Jack. Other people's problems are no concern of mine.

And has anyone in this thread come up with any benefit of Brexit - to them personally or the UK?


YOU MANIACS sums it up.
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Used to buy all our low carb products from a company in Germany. After Brexit they emailed to say due to export costs they would no longer sell to me in UK. So I revisited the market and found far superior products made right here in the UK for same money. They now get all our business, incidentally the German company emailed a few weeks back saying they were exporting again and would love to have our custom again…

So that’s one story of personal benefit and benefit to the UK as requested. I await the goalposts to be moved or the dismissive narrative to be rolled out. Brexit has neither been the sky falling predict by some nor the walk in the park predicted by others. It’s a mess in some ways, unchanged In others, and better in others. Currently the bad outweighs the good.

Like moths to a flame this thread. Well done OP.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Don't fall for it. They are sick of the previous thread having the same six folk agreeing with each other and are trying to reignite the same bollocks here. @Moderating Team - can this be merged with the EU relations thread? Same shit, different shovel
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I’m surprised it’s been let to run. No actual discussion, just the same old mud slinging. It’s given me a giggle though.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Fuck me this guy is stupid and insists on demonstrating it in public ...... his issue is the opposite of what he claims in that the EU is applying the agreement in full its the UK that is not hence the queue's at Dover for example. They are applying the agreement we are not, mainly because we failed to install the means at the border and recruit the necessary bodies to implement it. Even Johnson is on record that he agreed the protocol but he thought the EU would also sign but not apply it. Why would they do that? All Frost is doing is trying to disassociate himself and his name from the inevitable criticism that will be the historical fallout of his acts.

www.theguardian.com

‘Weakness’ of UK position shaped Northern Ireland protocol negotiations, David Frost says

Former Brexit negotiator criticises Irish government’s focus on ‘all-island’ economy
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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His views regarding NI have a degree of truth to them, he is just expressing them poorly.

The NI protocol was of course essentially designed to avoid the UK ex NI from undercutting the EU with lower third country tariffs, weaker product standards etc and then exporting goods to the EU indirectly (without proper customs procedures) via NI. Everyone knew that a proper border in Ireland was untenable, hence the need for the border to shift to NI versus UK ex NI. All parties agreed to that, in principle at least.

The NI protocol is however is very vague in relation to how strictly the new arrangements would be implemented and how problems would be resolved. Most things in relation to the Irish border issue are of course a fudge. But it was generally thought that the new customs arrangements would only be strictly enforced if there was evidence of growing indirect exports to the EU via NI, or if the UK’s product standards and tariffs vis-a-vis third countries diverged significantly from the EU’s. None of these things have happened and therefore it’s a bit rich for the EU to ignore the issues caused by the protocol in NI after emphasising the need for peace when negotiating.

Bottom line though is that the UK was always over a barrel on NI and relying on vague half promises to turn a blind eye here and there was about the best they could hope for. I think the general idea from a UK perspective was to hope the border arrangements would fudge the issue and keep a lid on things for 15 - 20 years - slowly deflate the balloon rather than pop it - after which the reunification argument would take over. Essentially hope for the best and think things will come good, which looks to be Johnson’s approach to everything.
 
metalblue said:
Used to buy all our low carb products from a company in Germany. After Brexit they emailed to say due to export costs they would no longer sell to me in UK. So I revisited the market and found far superior products made right here in the UK for same money. They now get all our business, incidentally the German company emailed a few weeks back saying they were exporting again and would love to have our custom again…

So that’s one story of personal benefit and benefit to the UK as requested. I await the goalposts to be moved or the dismissive narrative to be rolled out. Brexit has neither been the sky falling predict by some nor the walk in the park predicted by others. It’s a mess in some ways, unchanged In others, and better in others. Currently the bad outweighs the good.

Like moths to a flame this thread. Well done OP.
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Couldn't you have found the UK source even if we were still in the EU?
Sounds like Brexit forced you to do something rather than nothing.
 
metalblue said:
Of course. But I wasn’t looking, Brexit forced me to look. Ergo Brexit has resulted in a UK firm getting extra business and us getting a better product.
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stevemacca said:
Thats an extremely tenuous benefit, almost irrelevent
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Not true. I’m a remainer and think Brexit is a shitshow but this is a small example of a UK firm benefitting. That same UK firm could have benefited without Brexit but the OP preferred not to looking for alternatives to the German company which is/was his right.

However, this small example doesn’t mean Brexit is a success by any means
 
journolud said:
Not true. I’m a remainer and think Brexit is a shitshow but this is a small example of a UK firm benefitting. That same UK firm could have benefited without Brexit but the OP preferred not to looking for alternatives to the German company which is/was his right.

However, this small example doesn’t mean Brexit is a success by any means
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I suspect Brexit has taught quite a few business people that it's a good idea to always be aware what's available in the wider market to keep their own suppliers on their toes. It shouldn't have needed Brexit though, it's just good business practice. Without Brexit it's difficult to know if the domestic supplier would have had the capacity to replace the German one. It may be that they had lost some of their export market and needed to be more keenly priced to replace that market domestically.

This example is also indicative of how trade will inevitably reorganise itself such that domestic suppliers will pick up the slack from imported goods that have become too expensive or difficult to import. In general these domestic suppliers should have the necessary capacity because of the export trade they have lost.

Overall though the OBR has predicted a 4% fall in GDP due to Brexit so although there will be winners and losers along the way the net overall effect will almost certainly be negative.
 
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