How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

BrianW said:
The only way Brexit would have worked would be if the EU collapsed. This was a wet dream of Brexiters and some still think it will happen and are glad we are out for that reason. However, it simply won't. It's a total delusion.

Wishing something doesn't make it so.
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People have been stridently predicting the imminent demise of the EU for years without any supporting evidence whatsoever, other than, as you say, wishful thinking. It’s a serious form of mental weakness.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
People have been stridently predicting the imminent demise of the EU for years without any supporting evidence whatsoever, other than, as you say, wishful thinking. It’s a serious form of mental weakness.
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Alas, when mental weakness leads to wishful thinking in one direction- the imminent collapse of the European Union- it inevitably leads to wishful thinking in the other direction- a free trade deal with the United States of America.

When a country’s leadership is so poor at reading the tea leaves, it rarely bodes well.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
People have been stridently predicting the imminent demise of the EU for years without any supporting evidence whatsoever, other than, as you say, wishful thinking. It’s a serious form of mental weakness.
Click to expand...


The only evidence ever produced was 'unaudited accounts'' and the occasional bribery or fraud case (as though that doesn't happen of course in the UK Parliamentary system.)
 
BrianW said:
The only way Brexit would have worked would be if the EU collapsed. This was a wet dream of Brexiters and some still think it will happen and are glad we are out for that reason. However, it simply won't. It's a total delusion.

Wishing something doesn't make it so.
Click to expand...
Bbbbut they needed us more than we needed them.
 
knackers up the NISSAN business model as their export plans rested heavily on this factories product to up the local content of their EV's for export

www.bbc.co.uk

Britishvolt: UK battery start-up collapses into administration

The majority of Britishvolt's 232 employees have been made redundant after last minute attempts to find a buyer failed.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 
bluethrunthru said:
knackers up the NISSAN business model as their export plans rested heavily on this factories product to up the local content of their EV's for export

www.bbc.co.uk

Britishvolt: UK battery start-up collapses into administration

The majority of Britishvolt's 232 employees have been made redundant after last minute attempts to find a buyer failed.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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They played this out on the news: one location building these in the UK with a fairly hefty amount in Europe.
Quite an obvious visual.
Of course, that one location we did have is now no longer there either.

The benefits keep on a rollin in.....
 
somapop said:
They played this out on the news: one location building these in the UK with a fairly hefty amount in Europe.
Quite an obvious visual.
Of course, that one location we did have is now no longer there either.

The benefits keep on a rollin in.....
Click to expand...

And JLR just moved their battery production into the EU because...........
 
Spoke to a mate of mine who has had an interiors company for the last 30 years. What he described to me about his business now is utterly farcical when it comes to importing furniture from the EU. He can’t even tell his punters where their stock is until it turns up via the RoI - in about twice as long as it previously took. And the form filling is insane.

The Brussels red tape argument never held any water for me. The point of all these regulations was to reduce red tape for the importers and exporters, and it clearly worked.

We really have fucking blown it.
 
Maybe the energy generated from this bonfire of EU regulations could somehow be captured and used to power electric cars. Batteries shmatteries…
 
The Conservatives have made such a “hash” of Brexit that the project is probably “unsalvageable”, according to Boris Johnson’s favourite newspaper.

from yesterdays Independent:

An editorial column in The Telegraph – where Mr Johnson formerly worked and known to be his favoured newspaper – suggested that Brexit was now doomed to failure.


Admitting “almost nothing has been achieved”, the Brexit-backing newspaper added: “With no plan to unleash its potential, it can only fester, stoking tensions in Northern Ireland and strangling small firms with red tape.”


“It is time for the Leave camp to start saying the unsayable: the Torieshave made such a hash of Brexit that the project is probably now unsalvageable,” it added.

The column marks the rise of so-called “Bregret” or “Regrexit”, with polls indicating that many Leave voters believe Brexit is going badly and a growing number are in favour of rejoining the EU.

One in three Tory voters (33 per cent) believe Brexit has created more problems than it has solved, an Opinium survey in early January. A separate YouGov poll found 30 per cent of Leave voters said the UK should now forge closer ties with Brussels.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
The Conservatives have made such a “hash” of Brexit that the project is probably “unsalvageable”, according to Boris Johnson’s favourite newspaper.

from yesterdays Independent:

An editorial column in The Telegraph – where Mr Johnson formerly worked and known to be his favoured newspaper – suggested that Brexit was now doomed to failure.


Admitting “almost nothing has been achieved”, the Brexit-backing newspaper added: “With no plan to unleash its potential, it can only fester, stoking tensions in Northern Ireland and strangling small firms with red tape.”


“It is time for the Leave camp to start saying the unsayable: the Torieshave made such a hash of Brexit that the project is probably now unsalvageable,” it added.

The column marks the rise of so-called “Bregret” or “Regrexit”, with polls indicating that many Leave voters believe Brexit is going badly and a growing number are in favour of rejoining the EU.

One in three Tory voters (33 per cent) believe Brexit has created more problems than it has solved, an Opinium survey in early January. A separate YouGov poll found 30 per cent of Leave voters said the UK should now forge closer ties with Brussels.
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Makes me so angry this. It was always going to be like this. Any **** with an ounce of common sense could see that.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Makes me so angry this. It was always going to be like this. Any **** with an ounce of common sense could see that.
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It was inevitable it would come to this sadly.

Looking forward though, this may represent the first buds of spring that the country as a whole is moving to the realisation it was a wrong(incredibly stupid) thing to do. At the very least we may now get some adult discussion as to how to mitigate the mess. I once thought the Brexit was the thing to get angry about - ahhh happy days.....
I now have a list that is very long and shows no sign of reducing. Fucking tory bastards.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
It was inevitable it would come to this sadly.

Looking forward though, this may represent the first buds of spring that the country as a whole is moving to the realisation it was a wrong(incredibly stupid) thing to do. At the very least we may now get some adult discussion as to how to mitigate the mess. I once thought the Brexit was the thing to get angry about - ahhh happy days.....
I now have a list that is very long and shows no sign of reducing. Fucking tory bastards.
Click to expand...
I think, broadly speaking, people who voted for Brexit fell into two camps. One did so on a dogmatic basis, the other on a broadly pragmatic basis, in that they were perhaps a little uncomfortable about ‘being told what to do’ by an unaccountable and undemocratic (foreign) authority and believed (or wanted to) that we would be better off outside the EU and in control of our own destiny; many of them were also uncomfortable about immigration and saw leaving as a solution.

The former will not shift their view on the EU irrespective of the cost or economic consequences. To them, it’s a point of principle that they will die on a hill for. I guess they account for about a quarter of the electorate, give or take.

The latter will have seen the ‘better off‘ and ’control of our own destiny’ arguments wither and die and have seen our domestic politics descend into a dysfunctional farce, where accountability and democracy have been in serious retreat. They will also have seen immigration (legal and illegal) continue to rise, as it was always going to. Once enough of that group wake up to reality, and natural demographic changes work their way through with the effluxion of time, critical mass (about two thirds of the electorate) for rejoining will be attained. I think two thirds (or thereabouts) being a super majority, will be impossible to resist.

Think it will take a few years though. And for things to get even worse. We need to learn our lesson, lamentably. And we need to learn some fucking humility.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I think, broadly speaking, people who voted for Brexit fell into two camps. One did so on a dogmatic basis, the other on a broadly pragmatic basis, in that they were perhaps a little uncomfortable about ‘being told what to do’ by an unaccountable and undemocratic (foreign) authority and believed (or wanted to) that we would be better off outside the EU and in control of our own destiny; many of them were also uncomfortable about immigration and saw leaving as a solution.

The former will not shift their view on the EU irrespective of the cost or economic consequences. To them, it’s a point of principle that they will die on a hill for. I guess they account for about a quarter of the electorate, give or take.

The latter will have seen the ‘better off‘ and ’control of our own destiny’ arguments wither and die and have seen our domestic politics descend into a dysfunctional farce, where accountability and democracy have been in serious retreat. They will also have seen immigration (legal and illegal) continue to rise, as it was always going to. Once enough of that group wake up to reality, and natural demographic changes work their way through with the effluxion of time, critical mass (about two thirds of the electorate) for rejoining will be attained. I think two thirds (or thereabouts) being a super majority, will be impossible to resist.

Think it will take a few years though. And for things to get even worse. We need to learn our lesson, lamentably. And we need to learn some fucking humility.
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The more uncomfortable it gets in the Uk. The more people will shift if they see a possible way to improve their lives. Paradoxically that’s why many voted for Brexit in the first place as they believed the lies. Humility? Not in our life time I’m afraid.
 
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