How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

Palerider said:
I've no problem with Europe or Europeans. I just do not want currently to be a part of a European political project. Surely it cannot be right that the power in a fair political project is held by those with the biggest purse strings? That's back to the middle ages.
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Where on earth do you suppose the power lies within the UK? With the Salvation Army?

Sorry, I am getting more and more intemperate and I am reluctant to let myself off the leash. I just cannot believe that anyone thinks the UK is a model of fairness and democracy. It is at best a corrupt oligarchy, and that is being generous. The EU protected us (to a point) from the worst of the gangsterism. Now the gangsters have taken back control.

And, bottom line, I would sooner be part of a project to unite Europe, whatever its failings, than outside looking in, with no power of influence whatever. Because if you think having such a behemoth on our doorstep does not impact us unless we are formally part of it, you are kidding yourself.
 
blueparrot said:
If things around you are affected then of course you are affected , I haven’t needed hospital treatment or a care home yet does that mean I’m not affected? What if I need one tomorrow can I say it had affected me then. It’s affecting my mum at the moment am I allowed to include that as an affect on me ?
Or are we all just being self centred about it.
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If the "self" is the UK, it is a massive act of self-harm. But I suspect Palerider is just now wumming.
 
Palerider said:
Thank you for your considered reply. I fully accept your reasons for voting remain. I went through the same thought process and came to the conclusion that leaving would be better. That difference of opinion is why a referendum was deemed necessary? As for my reasons, I answered a question for my top 10 reasons/benefits of leaving a few weeks ago on here. Which is why I have asked the same from remainers!
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Simple. You haven't got any of the benefits. They're all disbenefits.
 
Palerider said:
The idea that the NHS and social care has collapsed because of brexit is ludicrous. I'm 64 and everything is affected by inflation but inflation tends to go up every year whether we are in the EU or not. So why has the part of inflation caused by brexit so different to inflation caused by any other government decision. What I am trying to understand is why the vitriol?
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EU workers were vital to care homes. Staff shortages = shortage of spaces = bed blocking = ambulance queues and A&E queues.
 
Palerider said:
I'm sorry everyone, too many posts to reply to individually. But I had to reply to this one.
What part of my 'abstract bullshit' did you not like? The part where i say I think 'the EU is a middle class con job'. How many trips abroad do you make? Have you heard of the climate crisis? I think when you state 'fairly trivial' you might be being a little kind to yourself. In fairness though, I fully accept that those things however trivial have affected your lifestyle and that you have answered my question. Whether that is enough to merit the continuous vitriol aimed at people who voted brexit I suppose we will have to differ. Just on point 8 though, I bought a boiler part from Holland and it was here within a couple of days, no problem at all.
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Pretty much all of it. There wasn’t a single point you made that directly personally affected you in a positive way. Your third point about the ECHR was a particular highlight as it demonstrated your total ignorance as to what Brexit has achieved seeing as the ECHR is absolutely nothing to do with the EU and therefore Brexit, and we’re still in it. The rest was regurgitation of Brexiteer propaganda that is demonstrably false as explained in the subsequent posts.

The reason Brexit has had a minor personal impact on me is because I am not involved in importing, exporting, farming, fishing, food production, logistics or anything else that Brexit has totally fucked up. I am a consumer that can afford to pay extra and that can tolerate minor inconveniences. That makes me lucky unlike half the population who are less lucky.

I have been abroad 9 times since Brexit started properly at the end of Jan 2021 so I’ve flown, sailed or got the Eurostar into enough countries to know that Brexit hasn’t helped. If you’re implying that it is a benefit in the fight against climate change to make it more difficult to travel abroad I don’t think I saw that on the side of a bus or claimed by the Brexit cheerleaders like Farage and Mogg.

Well done on getting your boiler part quickly. You can probably thank the fact that our customs authorities aren’t geared up to do all the checks that they should be doing to reciprocate the checks carried out on our exports. Another Brexit failure for Britain and success for the EU.
 
west didsblue said:
Pretty much all of it. There wasn’t a single point you made that directly personally affected you in a positive way. Your third point about the ECHR was a particular highlight as it demonstrated your total ignorance as to what Brexit has achieved seeing as the ECHR is absolutely nothing to do with the EU and therefore Brexit, and we’re still in it. The rest was regurgitation of Brexiteer propaganda that is demonstrably false as explained in the subsequent posts.

The reason Brexit has had a minor personal impact on me is because I am not involved in importing, exporting, farming, fishing, food production, logistics or anything else that Brexit has totally fucked up. I am a consumer that can afford to pay extra and that can tolerate minor inconveniences. That makes me lucky unlike half the population who are less lucky.

I have been abroad 9 times since Brexit started properly at the end of Jan 2021 so I’ve flown, sailed or got the Eurostar into enough countries to know that Brexit hasn’t helped. If you’re implying that it is a benefit in the fight against climate change to make it more difficult to travel abroad I don’t think I saw that on the side of a bus or claimed by the Brexit cheerleaders like Farage and Mogg.

Well done on getting your boiler part quickly. You can probably thank the fact that our customs authorities aren’t geared up to do all the checks that they should be doing to reciprocate the checks carried out on our exports. Another Brexit failure for Britain and success for the EU.
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Those will be the customs checks which we will have to implement sometime soon, which were described by none other than Reet-smug as ‘ an act of self harm’.
Got that right Jakey.
 
west didsblue said:
Pretty much all of it. There wasn’t a single point you made that directly personally affected you in a positive way. Your third point about the ECHR was a particular highlight as it demonstrated your total ignorance as to what Brexit has achieved seeing as the ECHR is absolutely nothing to do with the EU and therefore Brexit, and we’re still in it. The rest was regurgitation of Brexiteer propaganda that is demonstrably false as explained in the subsequent posts.

The reason Brexit has had a minor personal impact on me is because I am not involved in importing, exporting, farming, fishing, food production, logistics or anything else that Brexit has totally fucked up. I am a consumer that can afford to pay extra and that can tolerate minor inconveniences. That makes me lucky unlike half the population who are less lucky.

I have been abroad 9 times since Brexit started properly at the end of Jan 2021 so I’ve flown, sailed or got the Eurostar into enough countries to know that Brexit hasn’t helped. If you’re implying that it is a benefit in the fight against climate change to make it more difficult to travel abroad I don’t think I saw that on the side of a bus or claimed by the Brexit cheerleaders like Farage and Mogg.

Well done on getting your boiler part quickly. You can probably thank the fact that our customs authorities aren’t geared up to do all the checks that they should be doing to reciprocate the checks carried out on our exports. Another Brexit failure for Britain and success for the EU.
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Funnily enough, imports haven’t been affected hugely since Brexit, just exports. So we’re importing at least the same but exporting considerably less and, since the Brexit vote led to an immediate 20% fall in the value of the pound, importing anything is costing more. Winner, winner chicken dinner……
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
Funnily enough, imports haven’t been affected hugely since Brexit, just exports. So we’re importing at least the same but exporting considerably less and, since the Brexit vote led to an immediate 20% fall in the value of the pound, importing anything is costing more. Winner, winner chicken dinner……
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It’s quite barmy, isn’t it. The EU have stuck to the regulations, ensuring those outside of it complete the requisite paperwork, yet we have not imposed the same regulations as we need the exports.

Just wondering which foot the boots on?
 
Brexit, in my view, is like saying, I don't like my job. I want to be a medieval knight or a horse tram driver.

In other words, it's a fantasy, and wholly impracticable. 99% of it amounts to obsession with intangibles. However, the real problem is not that. No, the real problem is that there is no realistic alternative set of arrangements that will put matters right.

In an age when people are more and more concerned with the environmental impact of long-distance flights and merchant shipping (very oil-based and very dirty) it makes no sense at all to try to trade with people on the other side of the planet in preference to those close to us. If anything, we should be doing the direct opposite, as far as it is practicable.
 
BrianW said:
Brexit, in my view, is like saying, I don't like my job. I want to be a medieval knight or a horse tram driver.

In other words, it's a fantasy, and wholly impracticable. 99% of it amounts to obsession with intangibles. However, the real problem is not that. No, the real problem is that there is no realistic alternative set of arrangements that will put matters right.

In an age when people are more and more concerned with the environmental impact of long-distance flights and merchant shipping (very oil-based and very dirty) it makes no sense at all to try to trade with people on the other side of the planet in preference to those close to us. If anything, we should be doing the direct opposite, as far as it is practicable.
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Particularly so when 82% of UK jobs are in the private sector and most are in small businesses, as evinced by Dr. Liam Fox last week. It may well be easier to sell financial services around the world digitally, but it’s much, much harder for small producers. Doesn’t stop Conservatives talking about Buccaneering Britain, however.
 
BrianW said:
Brexit, in my view, is like saying, I don't like my job. I want to be a medieval knight or a horse tram driver.

In other words, it's a fantasy, and wholly impracticable. 99% of it amounts to obsession with intangibles. However, the real problem is not that. No, the real problem is that there is no realistic alternative set of arrangements that will put matters right.

In an age when people are more and more concerned with the environmental impact of long-distance flights and merchant shipping (very oil-based and very dirty) it makes no sense at all to try to trade with people on the other side of the planet in preference to those close to us. If anything, we should be doing the direct opposite, as far as it is practicable.
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what we are doing is going from driving to an away match in a car and agreeing to split the petrol cost 4 ways then leaving the car sharing fans group and going in our own car but whenever we are asked we tell everyone that I can travel as a singleton even more cheaply as a four - enjoying doing so even more than I did with 3 other mates and explaining that I am enjoying many other benefits but cannot share any of them with you
 
BrianW said:
Brexit, in my view, is like saying, I don't like my job. I want to be a medieval knight or a horse tram driver.

In other words, it's a fantasy, and wholly impracticable. 99% of it amounts to obsession with intangibles. However, the real problem is not that. No, the real problem is that there is no realistic alternative set of arrangements that will put matters right.

In an age when people are more and more concerned with the environmental impact of long-distance flights and merchant shipping (very oil-based and very dirty) it makes no sense at all to try to trade with people on the other side of the planet in preference to those close to us. If anything, we should be doing the direct opposite, as far as it is practicable.
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The one thing they just ignore is proximity. It is THE prime driver for trade, wherever you are and whatever you’re trading. It’s why the corner shop exists, and why petrol stations have mini supermarkets in them. Not because they’re especially cheap but because they’re close by.

It’s like living in London and being told petrol is 20p per litre cheaper in Aberdeen. Would anyone drive to Aberdeen for their petrol? Obviously not but, what the politicians in charge have done is say that petrol could be 20p cheaper and they’ve then closed all the petrol stations between London and Aberdeen!! Of course, when you get to Aberdeen, the petrol is, in fact, 20p dearer……
Absolute melts the lot of them.
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
The one thing they just ignore is proximity. It is THE prime driver for trade, wherever you are and whatever you’re trading. It’s why the corner shop exists, and why petrol stations have mini supermarkets in them. Not because they’re especially cheap but because they’re close by.

It’s like living in London and being told petrol is 20p per litre cheaper in Aberdeen. Would anyone drive to Aberdeen for their petrol? Obviously not but, what the politicians in charge have done is say that petrol could be 20p cheaper and they’ve then closed all the petrol stations between London and Aberdeen!! Of course, when you get to Aberdeen, the petrol is, in fact, 20p dearer……
Absolute melts the lot of them.
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The sheer stupidity in the decision was have taken is truly staggering.
 
We left the EU. The EU is a political organisation NOT a trading group. It's like someone telling you 'I'll make you rich but you have to vote Tory forever and follow our rules forever', no problem for Tories but others may object? Leavers objected to a political organisation not trading arrangements. Different political views are currently allowed.
 
Palerider said:
We left the EU. The EU is a political organisation NOT a trading group. It's like someone telling you 'I'll make you rich but you have to vote Tory forever and follow our rules forever', no problem for Tories but others may object? Leavers objected to a political organisation not trading arrangements. Different political views are currently allowed.
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So why didn't we leave the political organisation and stay in the trading organisation ?
 
Palerider said:
We left the EU. The EU is a political organisation NOT a trading group. It's like someone telling you 'I'll make you rich but you have to vote Tory forever and follow our rules forever', no problem for Tories but others may object? Leavers objected to a political organisation not trading arrangements. Different political views are currently allowed.
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If leavers objected to the political organisation and not the trading arrangements, why didn’t they push for remaining inside the customs Union instead of the shit show we have now? Or was it another consequence that wasn’t explained to get brexit over the line at all costs?
 
feedmpenzaandhewillscore said:
If leavers objected to the political organisation and not the trading arrangements, why didn’t they push for remaining inside the customs Union instead of the shit show we have now? Or was it another consequence that wasn’t explained to get brexit over the line at all costs?
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FFS. We had a referendum with 'IN' or 'OUT'. We did not vote to get seats at the negotiating table.
 
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