How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

threespires said:
Liz Truss thought his advice was sound. Enough said.
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Politicians tend to like the 'right sort' of advice even if it's total bollocks.

This reveals their weakness of character. A true leader considers all advice, even that which they dislike, and bases their decisions on the advice that has sound arguments behind it.

If you accept advice on the basis that you like it you are following the example of all the failed kings and dictators in history.

Minford gained prominence precisely because he was practically the only serious economist who thought Brexit might be advantageous. Therefore he was telling the Brexit loons what they wanted to hear. A modern-day Piers Gaveston or Earl of Strafford.
 
BrianW said:
Politicians tend to like the 'right sort' of advice even if it's total bollocks.

This reveals their weakness of character. A true leader considers all advice, even that which they dislike, and bases their decisions on the advice that has sound arguments behind it.

If you accept advice on the basis that you like it you are following the example of all the failed kings and dictators in history.

Minford gained prominence precisely because he was practically the only serious economist who thought Brexit might be advantageous. Therefore he was telling the Brexit loons what they wanted to hear. A modern-day Piers Gaveston or Earl of Strafford.
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I think when Foot asked Thatcher to name two economist who supported her policies she responded with Walters and Minford and allegedly joked afterwards that thankfully he hadn't asked her to name three.
 
I wonder if this thread has run its course now, as presumably nobody (even the most ardent Brexiteers) genuinely think that Brexit has actually been “a winner” in any way.

Maybe a change of thread title, or new thread, along the lines of “How do we resolve the Brexit mess?” is in order? Fresh start, and all that.
 
Ric said:
I wonder if this thread has run its course now, as presumably nobody (even the most ardent Brexiteers) genuinely think that Brexit has actually been “a winner” in any way.

Maybe a change of thread title, or new thread, along the lines of “How do we resolve the Brexit mess?” is in order? Fresh start, and all that.
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Just one more :

We’ve completely fucking blown it
 
it's made millionaires into billionaires, seriously wadded into millionaires, the other 98% are sinking into hopeless poverty....from a far-right perspective its been an absolute bonanza...on both counts
 
bluethrunthru said:
Next question - " how do we fit a square peg in a round hole without forcing it"?



answer there was none
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Maybe, but it might be less depressing than being continually reminded of how much shitter our lives have become post Brexit. We won’t forget who caused this, but at some point we have to look to the future and hope theres a way to improve the current situation.
 
Ric said:
I wonder if this thread has run its course now, as presumably nobody (even the most ardent Brexiteers) genuinely think that Brexit has actually been “a winner” in any way.

Maybe a change of thread title, or new thread, along the lines of “How do we resolve the Brexit mess?” is in order? Fresh start, and all that.
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Although they won’t think it’s been a winner to date, there’ll be a fair few that will still think that’s down to how it’s been implemented so they’d think it could still be a success. That and for those that were never a fan of it, there’ll be differing opinion on how quickly we can move to start to repair the damage.

I think that change of thread title would work for people on all sides.
 
meltonblue said:
Although they won’t think it’s been a winner to date, there’ll be a fair few that will still think that’s down to how it’s been implemented so they’d think it could still be a success. That and for those that were never a fan of it, there’ll be differing opinion on how quickly we can move to start to repair the damage.

I think that change of thread title would work for people on all sides.
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Thanks, have edited it now.
 
As an outsider who wasn't allowed a vote (even though a UK citizen). It's obvious the general public should never have been given a referendum on such an important issue, they just didn't understand the implications, it was beyond most people.
If I was leader of the opposition parties I would be promising to rejoin the EU if we win power. (if they'll have us back of course)
I don't know if they are doing that.
 
How do we resolve the brexit mess?

Simple. We will have to prove to our European neighbours we want to be part of the EU again. They have, understanably, a very sceptical view of England, not so much with Scotland, but we will need to show them what we can offer, without any demands from us regarding special treatment, and that we really want to rejoin.

Our commitment to rejoining will probably depend, as a first step, on us accepting the Euro as our currency and joining Schengen. Losing the pound and having open borders for a few years before we can rejoin should be their minimum requirement.

After that, who knows, but I would imagine they would like to see us commit to seeing our membership not as a business arrangement, but being part of a community for the common good, and what we can bring to the table on that score. Accepting their standards if we have diverged too far, accepting their rules on off shore bank accounts and tax avoidence.

Those are fair tests the EU members will ask of us, and they won't want us back until we show them true commitment. It's at least a generation away, maybe more.

They aren't going to take us back because living standards are falling as our economy struggles and they are feeling sorry for us. The EU is a protective economic region and they are benefitting from our exit as businesses move from the UK to the EU, which will continue over the coming years.

Why would they want to re-admit some cantakerous twat that just moans about the state of everything in the clubhouse?

It's their club and their rules, and at the moment we are decades away from rejoining, if they'll have us back at all.
 
NPBlue said:
How do we resolve the brexit mess?

Simple. We will have to prove to our European neighbours we want to be part of the EU again. They have, understanably, a very sceptical view of England, not so much with Scotland, but we will need to show them what we can offer, without any demands from us regarding special treatment, and that we really want to rejoin.

Our commitment to rejoining will probably depend, as a first step, on us accepting the Euro as our currency and joining Schengen. Losing the pound and having open borders for a few years before we can rejoin should be their minimum requirement.

After that, who knows, but I would imagine they would like to see us commit to seeing our membership not as a business arrangement, but being part of a community for the common good, and what we can bring to the table on that score. Accepting their standards if we have diverged too far, accepting their rules on off shore bank accounts and tax avoidence.

Those are fair tests the EU members will ask of us, and they won't want us back until we show them true commitment. It's at least a generation away, maybe more.

They aren't going to take us back because living standards are falling as our economy struggles and they are feeling sorry for us. The EU is a protective economic region and they are benefitting from our exit as businesses move from the UK to the EU, which will continue over the coming years.

Why would they want to re-admit some cantakerous twat that just moans about the state of everything in the clubhouse?

It's their club and their rules, and at the moment we are decades away from rejoining, if they'll have us back at all.
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I hope that we are not 'decades away' from rejoining.
It's cold outside....
 
Bill Walker said:
As an outsider who wasn't allowed a vote (even though a UK citizen). It's obvious the general public should never have been given a referendum on such an important issue, they just didn't understand the implications, it was beyond most people.
If I was leader of the opposition parties I would be promising to rejoin the EU if we win power. (if they'll have us back of course)
I don't know if they are doing that.
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We've tried cakeism and unicornism as ideals for leaving. Now you want a new party committed to rejoining, or capinhandism.

I'm sure Labour is asking the EU what can be done to normalise trade and rebuild some of what we've trashed, but that's about it. It was beyond most people but even without a referendum they still get a vote.
 
Vic said:
We've tried cakeism and unicornism as ideals for leaving. Now you want a new party committed to rejoining, or capinhandism.

I'm sure Labour is asking the EU what can be done to normalise trade and rebuild some of what we've trashed, but that's about it. It was beyond most people but even without a referendum they still get a vote.
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It's already happening. Some folk are still stuck in a sort of loop of everyday being June 2016, but outside of that there has already been general thawing of UK/EU relations even under the latest iteration of this govt. I think this trajectory will continue as we creep closer to some form of return. Either that or some huge event (war, disease, etc) will just over ride the whole in out thing and make it irrelevant.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
It's already happening. Some folk are still stuck in a sort of loop of everyday being June 2016, but outside of that there has already been general thawing of UK/EU relations even under the latest iteration of this govt. I think this trajectory will continue as we creep closer to some form of return. Either that or some huge event (war, disease, etc) will just over ride the whole in out thing and make it irrelevant.
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This government cannot thaw anything. The ERG, the NatCs, or any of the other Tufton Street spoiler groups won't let them.
 
Vic said:
This government cannot thaw anything. The ERG, the NatCs, or any of the other Tufton Street spoiler groups won't let them.
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That's certainly a problem, the same problem that caused the referendum but to say EU/ UK relations are no better under Sunak than BJ is just wrong. Obviously still a long way to go, but much of the open antagonism from both the UK and some European politicians has calmed down post Boris/Truss.
 
Bill Walker said:
As an outsider who wasn't allowed a vote (even though a UK citizen). It's obvious the general public should never have been given a referendum on such an important issue, they just didn't understand the implications, it was beyond most people.
If I was leader of the opposition parties I would be promising to rejoin the EU if we win power. (if they'll have us back of course)
I don't know if they are doing that.
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That's not really happening unfortunately. Libs are the closest as they seemingly intend to join the single market (sadly they aren't going to win an election though). Labour and Tories seem to be more about 'making Brexit work'.

Our best hope is probably a coalition gov with Labour and Lib.
 
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