How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Please don't think I'm saying there were no negatives or that I'm trying to say there were loads of positives, just that there has been minimal effect upon the (general) population. That's not to say there have not been more localised effects on specific industries and trade relationships - your example of car manufacturers being one of course.

The ‘minimal effects’ are only because we still haven’t properly done it yet..

The UK seems to have decided on trading preferences although these seem to alter depending on who the current PM is!

As far as trading with the EU, we seem to have decided that regulatory freedom is preferable to market access which, given our proximity to Europe, still makes absolutely no sense.
On the other side of the coin, we went to do as many ‘deals’ as possible, regardless of regulatory freedom or, and this is the really unforgivable bit, not worrying about the impact on UK businesses.

Problem with regulatory freedom is that nobody has a clue what it means, how to do it and, most pertinently, who will do it? The EU might regulate that plastic bottles can’t have removable tops, done by one department and applicable to all. We then have to decide if we want the same, can we be an ‘exception’, will it benefit us to go against that policy and a whole host of other things.
The one thing Brexit was supposed to give us, above all other things, politically at least, was a nimbleness of foot. Decisions could be made quickly, funding replacement would be swift and targeted. Power and funding out to the regions would be a start but we are still obsessed with centralisation.
Sadly, none of that has happened, and the 7 year EU funding settlements for the various regions looks like Usain Bolt compared to our fat 60 year old running the marathon in 8 hours!

What we have never managed to do is to highlight clear objectives for trading with the EU and, indeed, the wider world and, until we do, this doom loop will only get worse, all the while making us less competitive, poorer and losing influence.

 

[blueparrot]

How do we resolve it?

We all accept the result and have a government with balls to talk about it and lead the country into a period of self renewal and optimism. Instead of one using it as a crux to justify fucking over the already financially precarious majority.

What does that mean? self renewal are just words. Tells us nothing about what we should be doing to acheive that.

 

[hampshireblue]

Largely because the Govt has slow walked/deferred the introduction of border controls to prevent shortages and disruption to the food chains.

Full border checks and controls will cost you and everyone else. It’s simple economics. If the cost of importing goods/foodstuffs is increased through the imposition of border controls then that cost will be passed to the consumer.

Anyway, here’s a link breaking down the (then) Govt plans. This Govt is obliged to introduce these plans or negotiate an agreement to remove the need for the border controls.

https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/border-controls-for-uk-and-eu-imports-and-exports/

Spot on!

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

The ‘minimal effects’ are only because we still haven’t properly done it yet..

The UK seems to have decided on trading preferences although these seem to alter depending on who the current PM is!

As far as trading with the EU, we seem to have decided that regulatory freedom is preferable to market access which, given our proximity to Europe, still makes absolutely no sense.
On the other side of the coin, we went to do as many ‘deals’ as possible, regardless of regulatory freedom or, and this is the really unforgivable bit, not worrying about the impact on UK businesses.

Problem with regulatory freedom is that nobody has a clue what it means, how to do it and, most pertinently, who will do it? The EU might regulate that plastic bottles can’t have removable tops, done by one department and applicable to all. We then have to decide if we want the same, can we be an ‘exception’, will it benefit us to go against that policy and a whole host of other things.
The one thing Brexit was supposed to give us, above all other things, politically at least, was a nimbleness of foot. Decisions could be made quickly, funding replacement would be swift and targeted. Power and funding out to the regions would be a start but we are still obsessed with centralisation.
Sadly, none of that has happened, and the 7 year EU funding settlements for the various regions looks like Usain Bolt compared to our fat 60 year old running the marathon in 8 hours!

What we have never managed to do is to highlight clear objectives for trading with the EU and, indeed, the wider world and, until we do, this doom loop will only get worse, all the while making us less competitive, poorer and losing influence.

I agree with most of your points aside from the initial ' we haven't properly done it yet' one. We have, or at least have as much as we ever will. We are already seeing a thawing of relations and a more adult level of interaction between EU politicians and our own.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

I agree with most of your points aside from the initial ' we haven't properly done it yet' one. We have, or at least have as much as we ever will. We are already seeing a thawing of relations and a more adult level of interaction between EU politicians and our own.

Hope so. Once we’ve got ‘not for EU’ off our food, I’ll be a tad more optimistic..

 

[hampshireblue]

The ‘minimal effects’ are only because we still haven’t properly done it yet..

The UK seems to have decided on trading preferences although these seem to alter depending on who the current PM is!

As far as trading with the EU, we seem to have decided that regulatory freedom is preferable to market access which, given our proximity to Europe, still makes absolutely no sense.
On the other side of the coin, we went to do as many ‘deals’ as possible, regardless of regulatory freedom or, and this is the really unforgivable bit, not worrying about the impact on UK businesses.

Problem with regulatory freedom is that nobody has a clue what it means, how to do it and, most pertinently, who will do it? The EU might regulate that plastic bottles can’t have removable tops, done by one department and applicable to all. We then have to decide if we want the same, can we be an ‘exception’, will it benefit us to go against that policy and a whole host of other things.
The one thing Brexit was supposed to give us, above all other things, politically at least, was a nimbleness of foot. Decisions could be made quickly, funding replacement would be swift and targeted. Power and funding out to the regions would be a start but we are still obsessed with centralisation.
Sadly, none of that has happened, and the 7 year EU funding settlements for the various regions looks like Usain Bolt compared to our fat 60 year old running the marathon in 8 hours!

What we have never managed to do is to highlight clear objectives for trading with the EU and, indeed, the wider world and, until we do, this doom loop will only get worse, all the while making us less competitive, poorer and losing influence.

A brilliant view of the situation.

 

[hampshireblue]

I don't mind a difference of opinion it's just the non stop repetitive nature of it all and gross exaggeration. Also at some point adults accept some people just do not agree with them. My 6yr old granddaughter behaves better:-)

The situation is so complicated, especially when you add in a useless govt covid and Ukraine, that stats are just guesswork which anyone who has been around for any length of time should know.

There are bigger things to worry about tbh, outside of this particular sub forum it's not discussed that much. It's a real obsession with a handful on here. They must have either been personally affected or really hate not getting their way.

Hard to have much sympathy really.

A difference of opinion is good. Not accepting official figures and therefore the only thing we have that can be remotely considered as factual, is not. It's just counting.

It's not surprising it's discussed on here as it's a ......Brexit forum. We have all been personally affected in some way although for many it will be either fairly minimal or they just don't realise it.

Take Wales as an example, apparently according to some on here most of the population are unaffected but consider this from a 2023 report so not a guess, not a prediction, but actuallity:

"Taken together, the £243m loss in rural funding and the £772m shortfall in EU structural funds (table 2) add up to just more than £1bn. Applying the same inflation adjustment to rural funding as to the structural funds, the overall shortfall to the Welsh budget is more than £1.1bn.

These figures do not take into account the losses of funding from our access to other EU funding programmes, including Erasmus, Horizon and European Territorial Co-operation which have not been fully replaced by the UK Government."

You could say they won't miss what they haven't had but again this is just an example of a region being less well off adn it isn't the only one. I'm not debating the above as it is not an opinion, just counting. But if you and others can't see that there are numerous examples being highlighted and each time discount them then the question of whether it is a true debate becomes a mute point.

 

[hilts]

A difference of opinion is good. Not accepting official figures and therefore the only thing we have that can be remotely considered as factual, is not. It's just counting.

It's not surprising it's discussed on here as it's a ......Brexit forum. We have all been personally affected in some way although for many it will be either fairly minimal or they just don't realise it.

Take Wales as an example, apparently according to some on here most of the population are unaffected but consider this from a 2023 report so not a guess, not a prediction, but actuallity:

"Taken together, the £243m loss in rural funding and the £772m shortfall in EU structural funds (table 2) add up to just more than £1bn. Applying the same inflation adjustment to rural funding as to the structural funds, the overall shortfall to the Welsh budget is more than £1.1bn.

These figures do not take into account the losses of funding from our access to other EU funding programmes, including Erasmus, Horizon and European Territorial Co-operation which have not been fully replaced by the UK Government."

You could say they won't miss what they haven't had but again this is just an example of a region being less well off adn it isn't the only one. I'm not debating the above as it is not an opinion, just counting. But if you and others can't see that there are numerous examples being highlighted and each time discount them then the question of whether it is a true debate becomes a mute point.

I stopped reading after this:-

Not accepting official figures and therefore the only thing we have that can be remotely considered as factual,

 

[hampshireblue]

I stopped reading after this:-

Not accepting official figures and therefore the only thing we have that can be remotely considered as factual,

FFS, what do you wanna do-make up some "facts" based on whether it raining or not?

 

[hilts]

FFS, what do you wanna do-make up some "facts" based on whether it raining or not?

You're getting annoyed again, you said your facts weren't proven so there you go. I'm not interested.
I said I don't think brexit has been armageddon or is as bad as you think. What is it you actually want from me or others who don't agree with you? What are you hoping to achieve? If you do achieve it(you wont) what do you get out of it?
Rather than throwing stats at me it might be worth your while asking yourself what your motives are here and then you will come to the inevitable conclusion that your need to be seen as right in the eyes of strangers on a football forum is a bit odd especially considering it will make zero difference to anyone.

 

[hampshireblue]

You're getting annoyed again, you said your facts weren't proven so there you go. I'm not interested.
I said I don't think brexit has been armageddon or is as bad as you think. What is it you actually want from me or others who don't agree with you? What are you hoping to achieve? If you do achieve it(you wont) what do you get out of it?
Rather than throwing stats at me it might be worth your while asking yourself what your motives are here and then you will come to the inevitable conclusion that your need to be seen as right in the eyes of strangers on a football forum is a bit odd especially considering it will make zero difference to anyone.

Frustrated-not annoyed. Anyway when I've reached your 31000+ posts to strangers I may just start to ask myself what I get out of it and whether it's odd or not.

 

[hilts]

Frustrated-not annoyed. Anyway when I've reached your 31000+ posts to strangers I may just start to ask myself what I get out of it and whether it's odd or not.

And you will find none of those 31000 posts are trying to change your mind.

 

[Marklr]

..have they closed the borders yet?

 

[dronefromsector7G]

 

[hampshireblue]

And you will find none of those 31000 posts are trying to change your mind.

That's because most are your opinion, which we are all entitled to, whilst others involve you choosing to ignore facts.

 

[hilts]

That's because most are your opinion, which we are all entitled to, whilst others involve you choosing to ignore facts.

Everytime you reply to me you are only proving my point about you. Please carry on its very amusing.

 

[bluethrunthru]

remember when Johnson, Gove and Farage said that FoM only applied to forriners coming here but not to us retiring to Spain because they needed us - well something else that was never gonna happen ......well Spain is prioritising Spanish homes for Spanish people

Spain to slap 100% tax on foreign home-buyers in blow to British expat hopefuls | LBC

Spain is set to impose a significant new tax on foreigners, including Brits, buying homes in the country as it moves to prioritise housing availability for locals.

www.lbc.co.uk

 

[inbetween]

remember when Johnson, Gove and Farage said that FoM only applied to forriners coming here but not to us retiring to Spain because they needed us - well something else that was never gonna happen ......well Spain is prioritising Spanish homes for Spanish people

Spain to slap 100% tax on foreign home-buyers in blow to British expat hopefuls | LBC

Spain is set to impose a significant new tax on foreigners, including Brits, buying homes in the country as it moves to prioritise housing availability for locals.

www.lbc.co.uk

When did Reform get into power in Spain because it sounds right up their street?

Ultimately in the tourist areas this is certainly a great way to slash at your economy.

 

[KPXBLN]

Trivial example in the grand scheme of things, but my wife accidentally left her glasses at my dad's house when we visited (Manchester) over Christmas. He sent them back to her in the post and she had to pay import tax, plus a handling fee, to collect them from the post office.

 

[hampshireblue]

Trivial example in the grand scheme of things, but my wife accidentally left her glasses at my dad's house when we visited (Manchester) over Christmas. He sent them back to her in the post and she had to pay import tax, plus a handling fee, to collect them from the post office.

Now don't you come on here quoting facts!