How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

I believe in realpolitik. The UK cannot stand alone in the modern world. (In fact, it recognised this as far back as the Anglo-Japanese Alliance of 1902.) It needs to be part of a bloc.

I think we can rule out Russia and China, so it's a straight choice between the EU and the USA. The EU is a loose federation of near-equal states. As a member, we would have some influence. As a vassal state of the USA, we would have no influence at all. We'd have less say than the most backward US state.

Frankly, it's a no-brainer.
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
Brexiteers told us America would help us. Fuck off you knobs, nearly everything you voted for doesnt exist. Pricks.
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I'm an American and even I know.. you should never trust American politicians!

They'll say anything to get elected but once they do.. they screw over their voters and do stuff for the billionaires so once out of office.. they can enjoy their retirement with the bribed money.

Basically a FYGM to the voters. (FUCK YOU GOT MINE)
 
blueinsa said:
I’m not getting into the usual tennis match and will just say that GDM sums it up perfectly for me.

We are all guilty of speaking to each other in a way nobody probably would face to face.

Strangers on the internet calling each other cunts, thick, stupid, racist, libtards, woke and much much more is where this particular forum has found itself of late.

It’s a poor look that just entrenches views and does nothing to change minds and opinions.
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An ex-mod called me a “stupid ****” for reminding him of a prior post he made where he got prediction wrong (all the while ridiculing and belittling many who disagreed with him when he made it), then gave me a “final warning” (whatever that means) for tagging him.

So, yeah.

For the most part those who fucked it all up on issues end up ducking out of threads like cowards, often moaning about “echo chambers”. Props to folks who hold their hand up and says “I got it wrong” on any topic.
 
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Grassland Blue said:
The decision, whether to choose between U.S. or E.U., is going to become a reality very soon if Trump is allowed to continue as potus.
From being someone who largely agreed with American values and principles (pre Trump) I feel that the U.S. has changed into something unrecognisable since Trump's inauguration, something I don't like.
So when push comes to shove, I will be sliding with the E.U.
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The veneer and a few layers below is unrecogniz(s)able. The core is still what you remember. But I don’t know which wins in the intermediate term. I am less hopeful daily.
 
hampshireblue said:
Still none of the 52% prepared to come forward with some success stories?
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I had a chat with a neighbour at the shop the other day - he was a staunch Brexiteer and since the vote had become borderline racist so seldom speak to him but we were in a queue at the Sainsburys Local and he said something along the lines - "I know you fuckers are waiting for us all to die out so you can drag the country back in via the back door" - I pointed out to him that voting Remain wasn't some sort of magic elixir and Remainers are like as not dying at a similar rate - kind of stumped him with that
 
Grassland Blue said:
The decision, whether to choose between U.S. or E.U., is going to become a reality very soon if Trump is allowed to continue as potus.
From being someone who largely agreed with American values and principles (pre Trump) I feel that the U.S. has changed into something unrecognisable since Trump's inauguration, something I don't like.
So when push comes to shove, I will be sliding with the E.U.
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Is it just a straight choice though? Carney called on the 'middle nations' like Canada to work together to stand up to the Global bullies. I hope that a more sophisticated set of alliances will take place. Of course we need to be far closer to Europe - if that means EU membership so be it but I don't think that is inevitable. The EU, UK, Canada, maybe some of the South American countries like Brazil, Japan have to be closer and hopefully that is what we will see.
 
bluethrunthru said:
I had a chat with a neighbour at the shop the other day - he was a staunch Brexiteer and since the vote had become borderline racist so seldom speak to him but we were in a queue at the Sainsburys Local and he said something along the lines - "I know you fuckers are waiting for us all to die out so you can drag the country back in via the back door" - I pointed out to him that voting Remain wasn't some sort of magic elixir and Remainers are like as not dying at a similar rate - kind of stumped him with that
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Remain voters are dying more quickly, because they were older. There's solid evidence for that: GB News says it's nonsense. https://www.gbnews.com/politics/brexit-poll-rejoin-eu-dead-voters
 
BrianW said:
I believe in realpolitik. The UK cannot stand alone in the modern world. (In fact, it recognised this as far back as the Anglo-Japanese Alliance of 1902.) It needs to be part of a bloc.

I think we can rule out Russia and China, so it's a straight choice between the EU and the USA. The EU is a loose federation of near-equal states. As a member, we would have some influence. As a vassal state of the USA, we would have no influence at all. We'd have less say than the most backward US state.

Frankly, it's a no-brainer.
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You lost the room with loose federation of near equal states.
 
bluethrunthru said:
I had a chat with a neighbour at the shop the other day - he was a staunch Brexiteer and since the vote had become borderline racist so seldom speak to him but we were in a queue at the Sainsburys Local and he said something along the lines - "I know you fuckers are waiting for us all to die out so you can drag the country back in via the back door" - I pointed out to him that voting Remain wasn't some sort of magic elixir and Remainers are like as not dying at a similar rate - kind of stumped him with that
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I believe you spoke to this neighbour, I believe he was a brexit voter, I believe he was borderline racist because that is definitely possible, I believe you seldom speak to him but the meat isle brought you together, I believe he said you wished death upon him, I believe you pulled out a graph showing the death rate of brexiters and remoaners, I believe all this happened based on your history of honesty and look forward with vigor to more of your truthful musings.
 
It has become increasingly clear that Brexit was driven in part by the US and Russia (politically) to weaken the EU (to benefit the US and Russia) and UK (to benefit the Russians). Just a shame Brexit voters could not see this and were easily blinded by the "sovrinty, innit" type arguments. They were basically fooled like the child whose father asks, with his hands behind his back, "In which hand is the money?" In terms of ignorance and stupidity, it has some clear parallels with the Trojans accepting the horse.
 
Manc in London said:
It has become increasingly clear that Brexit was driven in part by the US and Russia (politically) to weaken the EU (to benefit the US and Russia) and UK (to benefit the Russians). Just a shame Brexit voters could not see this and were easily blinded by the "sovrinty, innit" type arguments. They were basically fooled like the child whose father asks, with his hands behind his back, "In which hand is the money?" In terms of ignorance and stupidity, it has some clear parallels with the Trojans accepting the horse.
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But Boris seemed so sincere
 
Manc in London said:
It has become increasingly clear that Brexit was driven in part by the US and Russia (politically) to weaken the EU (to benefit the US and Russia) and UK (to benefit the Russians). Just a shame Brexit voters could not see this and were easily blinded by the "sovrinty, innit" type arguments. They were basically fooled like the child whose father asks, with his hands behind his back, "In which hand is the money?" In terms of ignorance and stupidity, it has some clear parallels with the Trojans accepting the horse.
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You just hope more people see that those that were wanting Brexit, weren't doing it for the good of the country.

And this is why we now get the ‘Proper Brexit’ slant. The original campaign and subsequent exit brought the desired effect of social division and economic/national decline. Next stage for them is to get us out of things like the EHCR. Not so we can protect our boarders better, but to abolish the hard fought for rights that workers hold. It’s the way they sell it that people don’t see.

Not only us, they want the rest of the EU as well, to fully open the markets for America to exploit. Russia will get its own benefits with a fragmented Europe, picking up its own fatalities with the frailty of unity.

This isn’t about who is right or wrong, left or right, it’s all about ‘business’.
 
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