How much have Thatcher/Reagan contributed to the state of the world today?

For those that are curious where @PPT ’s graph came from, it is part of the House of Common Library’s Tax Statistics Overview.


And it is important to note a few things to put the graph in to context:

1) The passage immediately following the graph in the report explains to some extent the increased concentration of higher tax receipts from those with the highest incomes in 2020/2021, namely an “increase in the share of total income going to those at the top of income distribution”. In other words, intensifying wealth inequality is contributing to a larger proportion of tax receipts coming from the top income earners. As this overview benchmark is 2020/2021, this issue will have only become more severe over the last few years, as the shift in income distribution accelerated during the pandemic.

2) It remains the case that the Top 1% of earners pay the lowest share of their income in taxes compared to all other percentiles. Indeed, the share of income paid is roughly half that of all other percentiles, meaning those outside of the top 1% contribute a much higher proportion of their income to tax receipts.

3) This graph does not fully factor in assets and pensions or the lack of consistent taxation of that class of wealth. According to the Office of National Statistics, the wealthiest 10% of households tend to hold their wealth in property and private pensions. For example, the richest 1% of households have an average pension holding of £2 million, while the average pension savings for households with a head between 55 and State Pension Age are just over £200,000. The asset divide, which allows the wealthiest to avoid higher tax burdens, also contributes to the increasing dire wealth inequality. As of 2021, the bottom 50% of the population owned less than 5% of wealth, while the top 10% owned 57% and the top 1% owned 23%. That wealth disparity has only grown over the last few years.


4) Per HMRC, the share of tax paid by both the top 50% of earners and the top 1% of earners has actually fallen as of 2023/2024. Meaning, the tax burden of the top half of the income distribution has actually decreased.


5) When advocates for higher tax rates on the top deciles of wealth holders say they just want everyone to pay their “fair share”, they don’t mean nominal tax amounts. In a progressive tax system the most wealthy will always pay a higher overall amount than the less wealthy. What they mean by “fair share” is an equitable percentage (proportion) of their overall wealth (not just their incomes, which are often artificially reduced to avoid tax obligations). That includes properly taxing assets like property, equity holdings, and pensions in a similar fashion to income.
In other words, they're still not paying their fair share.
 
For those that are curious where @PPT ’s graph came from, it is part of the House of Common Library’s Tax Statistics Overview.


And it is important to note a few things to put the graph in to context:

1) The passage immediately following the graph in the report explains to some extent the increased concentration of higher tax receipts from those with the highest incomes in 2020/2021, namely an “increase in the share of total income going to those at the top of income distribution”. In other words, intensifying wealth inequality is contributing to a larger proportion of tax receipts coming from the top income earners. As this overview benchmark is 2020/2021, this issue will have only become more severe over the last few years, as the shift in income distribution accelerated during the pandemic.

2) It remains the case that the Top 1% of earners pay the lowest share of their income in taxes compared to all other percentiles. Indeed, the share of income paid is roughly half that of all other percentiles, meaning those outside of the top 1% contribute a much higher proportion of their income to tax receipts.

3) This graph does not fully factor in assets and pensions or the lack of consistent taxation of that class of wealth. According to the Office of National Statistics, the wealthiest 10% of households tend to hold their wealth in property and private pensions. For example, the richest 1% of households have an average pension holding of £2 million, while the average pension savings for households with a head between 55 and State Pension Age are just over £200,000. The asset divide, which allows the wealthiest to avoid higher tax burdens, also contributes to the increasing dire wealth inequality. As of 2021, the bottom 50% of the population owned less than 5% of wealth, while the top 10% owned 57% and the top 1% owned 23%. That wealth disparity has only grown over the last few years.


4) Per HMRC, the share of tax paid by both the top 50% of earners and the top 1% of earners has actually fallen as of 2023/2024. Meaning, the tax burden of the top half of the income distribution has actually decreased.


5) When advocates for higher tax rates on the top deciles of wealth holders say they just want everyone to pay their “fair share”, they don’t mean nominal tax amounts. In a progressive tax system the most wealthy will always pay a higher overall amount than the less wealthy. What they mean by “fair share” is an equitable percentage (proportion) of their overall wealth (not just their incomes, which are often artificially reduced to avoid tax obligations). That includes properly taxing assets like property, equity holdings, and pensions in a similar fashion to income.
Looks like I’m 24/7 rent free in your head?
Lovin’ it!
 
Looks like I’m 24/7 rent free in your head?
Lovin’ it!
Or—and I know this might sound crazy—I am an economist that likes to provide context and analysis when it comes to economic topics and debates, especially in threads I started, rather than just WUM threads and or attempt to wind up people.
 
Or—and I know this might sound crazy—I am an economist that likes to provide context and analysis when it comes to economic topics and debates, especially in threads I started, rather than just WUM threads and or attempt to wind up people.
There are some really good, interesting, knowledgeable posters on here. You are not one of them. The majority of your posts are made to cause argument, conflict and ridicule. Which I guess tells us a lot about you. As I have said previously, you are a sanctimonious, self opinionated, self righteous, self important prick. Enjoy your weekend.
 
There are some really good, interesting, knowledgeable posters on here. You are not one of them. The majority of your posts are made to cause argument, conflict and ridicule. Which I guess tells us a lot about you. As I have said previously, you are a sanctimonious, self opinionated, self righteous, self important prick. Enjoy your weekend.
Whatever you need convey to feel better in your life, I support, mate. Have a great weekend.
 
There are some really good, interesting, knowledgeable posters on here. You are not one of them. The majority of your posts are made to cause argument, conflict and ridicule. Which I guess tells us a lot about you. As I have said previously, you are a sanctimonious, self opinionated, self righteous, self important prick. Enjoy your weekend.

For some reason I'm getting the impression that you used to drive a TGR.
 


A side effect of the policies they championed. It infects our media.

Im sure this author wouldn’t mind a pay cut, since it’s for his own good.
 
For those that are curious where @PPT ’s graph came from, it is part of the House of Common Library’s Tax Statistics Overview.


And it is important to note a few things to put the graph in to context:

1) The passage immediately following the graph in the report explains to some extent the increased concentration of higher tax receipts from those with the highest incomes in 2020/2021, namely an “increase in the share of total income going to those at the top of income distribution”. In other words, intensifying wealth inequality is contributing to a larger proportion of tax receipts coming from the top income earners. As this overview benchmark is 2020/2021, this issue will have only become more severe over the last few years, as the shift in income distribution accelerated during the pandemic.

2) It remains the case that the Top 1% of earners pay the lowest share of their income in taxes compared to all other percentiles. Indeed, the share of income paid is roughly half that of all other percentiles, meaning those outside of the top 1% contribute a much higher proportion of their income to tax receipts.

3) This graph does not fully factor in assets and pensions or the lack of consistent taxation of that class of wealth. According to the Office of National Statistics, the wealthiest 10% of households tend to hold their wealth in property and private pensions. For example, the richest 1% of households have an average pension holding of £2 million, while the average pension savings for households with a head between 55 and State Pension Age are just over £200,000. The asset divide, which allows the wealthiest to avoid higher tax burdens, also contributes to the increasing dire wealth inequality. As of 2021, the bottom 50% of the population owned less than 5% of wealth, while the top 10% owned 57% and the top 1% owned 23%. That wealth disparity has only grown over the last few years.


4) Per HMRC, the share of tax paid by both the top 50% of earners and the top 1% of earners has actually fallen as of 2023/2024. Meaning, the tax burden of the top half of the income distribution has actually decreased.


5) When advocates for higher tax rates on the top deciles of wealth holders say they just want everyone to pay their “fair share”, they don’t mean nominal tax amounts. In a progressive tax system the most wealthy will always pay a higher overall amount than the less wealthy. What they mean by “fair share” is an equitable percentage (proportion) of their overall wealth (not just their incomes, which are often artificially reduced to avoid tax obligations). That includes properly taxing assets like property, equity holdings, and pensions in a similar fashion to income.

I think you're being a bit disingenuous on points 1 and 4, or at least economical with the truth.

On point 1, as per the tables available here (Table 2.4);


the share of income earned by the top 1% has gone up from its recent low in 2019-20, but at 13.0% in 2024 it remains below where it was 2008 (13.4%) and 2010 (13.9%). The same is also true for the top 5%; 25.2% of income in 2024 versus 26.4% in 2008 and 2010 (there are no data for 2009 unfortunately).

The share of income tax paid by the top 1% has however risen from 26.5% in 2010 to 28.5% in 2024, and for the top 5% the share has risen from 44.8% in 2010 to 49.2% in 2024. That's a major increase for the top 5% in particular, and so from the levels seen in the last couple of years of the previous Labour government, the share of income tax paid by the top 5% has clearly increased ahead of any change in the distribution of earnings.

To follow up on point 4, again I think by concentrating on just the latest annual movement you're distorting the picture provided. The top 50% paid 90.5% of income tax liabilities in 2024, down from a peak of 90.7% in 2022, but well up from the 88.8% seen in 2010. For completeness, the share of income earned by the top 50% has fallen from 77.1% in 2010 to 75.3% in 2024.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PPT

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top
  AdBlock Detected
Bluemoon relies on advertising to pay our hosting fees. Please support the site by disabling your ad blocking software to help keep the forum sustainable. Thanks.