How much have Thatcher/Reagan contributed to the state of the world today?

[Rascal]

Thatcher lowered the top income tax rate from 83% to 60%, and the to 40%. The basic rate was reduced from 33% to 25%. Could we live with those high rates now?

The Economic plight that the Tories have left us in means we might have too.

It is automatically assumed nowadays that lowering taxation is a good thing, i do not think it is. Tax unearned wealth , tax assets, tax the super rich, close loopholes and yes make the lowest tax right higher. If you want good public services they have to be paid for.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

The Economic plight that the Tories have left us in means we might have too.

It is automatically assumed nowadays that lowering taxation is a good thing, i do not think it is. Tax unearned wealth , tax assets, tax the super rich, close loopholes and yes make the lowest tax right higher. If you want good public services they have to be paid for.

Taxes absolutely have to go up. I don’t think this should be targeted at earnings, but rather assets.

 

[Snape]

Taxes absolutely have to go up. I don’t think this should be targeted at earnings, but rather assets.

Initially the lowering of tax did massively reduce the amount of tax evasion. But I have no idea when this crept up again?

 

[SebastianBlue]

Thatcher lowered the top income tax rate from 83% to 60%, and the to 40%. The basic rate was reduced from 33% to 25%. Could we live with those high rates now?

It depends if you want the NHS and UK welfare model or the US healthcare and social security model (the latter of which is woefully insufficient for recipients, leading to increasing elderly poverty, and will be bankrupt with no intervention within 10 years, and the former being one of the most inefficient and costly systems, with some of the worst health outcomes, in the developed world).

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

It depends if you want the NHS and UK welfare model or the US healthcare and social security model (the latter of which is woefully insufficient for recipients, leading to increasing elderly poverty, and will be bankrupt with no intervention within 10 years, and the former being one of the most inefficient and costly systems, with some of the worst health outcomes, in the developed world).

630,000 (on average) Bankrupt in the USA every year due to medical debts

 

[Blue and true]

Taxes absolutely have to go up. I don’t think this should be targeted at earnings, but rather assets.

Exactly. Such a common sense approach, but that would mean the most egregious tax avoiders (i.e the wealthiest percentile) paying their fair share. Never going to happen.

I could give a fuck if my taxes go up a couple of pence each month if it means our country receives best-in-class public services. I've got faith Starmer will finally be the one to aggressively tackle this.

 

[PPT]

The Economic plight that the Tories have left us in means we might have too.

It is automatically assumed nowadays that lowering taxation is a good thing, i do not think it is. Tax unearned wealth , tax assets, tax the super rich, close loopholes and yes make the lowest tax right higher. If you want good public services they have to be paid for.

How much tax do you / have you paid?

 

[PPT]

Exactly. Such a common sense approach, but that would mean the most egregious tax avoiders (i.e the wealthiest percentile) paying their fair share. Never going to happen.

I could give a fuck if my taxes go up a couple of pence each month if it means our country receives best-in-class public services. I've got faith Starmer will finally be the one to aggressively tackle this.

 

[SebastianBlue]

630,000 (on average) Bankrupt in the USA every year due to medical debts

Indeed. And, again, that is on top of having some of the worst health outcomes of any developed nation. Not to mention plenty of provider access issues in many parts of the country leading to huge wait times for healthcare. I can say that with experience, as I have had delays in receiving evaluation and treatment, and my son had to wait 8 months to be seen by a dermatologist for an allergies panel test based on a persistent (and some times moderate) rash on his face and arms that we suspected may be due to him having similar allergies to his mum. That’s because there are only two board-certifies dermatologists within 150 miles of us and one isn’t accepting new patients. And we have very good insurance.

But, somehow, the Tories managed to convince a fair few people that the NHS should be privatised like the US system to fix all of the present issues they created by gradually defunding and undermining the system.

Boggles the mind.

 

[SebastianBlue]

For those that are curious where @PPT ’s graph came from, it is part of the House of Common Library’s Tax Statistics Overview.

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8513/CBP-8513.pdf

And it is important to note a few things to put the graph in to context:

1) The passage immediately following the graph in the report explains to some extent the increased concentration of higher tax receipts from those with the highest incomes in 2020/2021, namely an “increase in the share of total income going to those at the top of income distribution”. In other words, intensifying wealth inequality is contributing to a larger proportion of tax receipts coming from the top income earners. As this overview benchmark is 2020/2021, this issue will have only become more severe over the last few years, as the shift in income distribution accelerated during the pandemic.

2) It remains the case that the Top 1% of earners pay the lowest share of their income in taxes compared to all other percentiles. Indeed, the share of income paid is roughly half that of all other percentiles, meaning those outside of the top 1% contribute a much higher proportion of their income to tax receipts.

3) This graph does not fully factor in assets and pensions or the lack of consistent taxation of that class of wealth. According to the Office of National Statistics, the wealthiest 10% of households tend to hold their wealth in property and private pensions. For example, the richest 1% of households have an average pension holding of £2 million, while the average pension savings for households with a head between 55 and State Pension Age are just over £200,000. The asset divide, which allows the wealthiest to avoid higher tax burdens, also contributes to the increasing dire wealth inequality. As of 2021, the bottom 50% of the population owned less than 5% of wealth, while the top 10% owned 57% and the top 1% owned 23%. That wealth disparity has only grown over the last few years.

Distribution of individual total wealth by characteristic in Great Britain - Office for National Statistics

Individual-level results from the seventh round of the Wealth and Assets Survey covering the period April 2018 to March 2020.

www.ons.gov.uk

4) Per HMRC, the share of tax paid by both the top 50% of earners and the top 1% of earners has actually fallen as of 2023/2024. Meaning, the tax burden of the top half of the income distribution has actually decreased.

Summary Statistics

www.gov.uk

5) When advocates for higher tax rates on the top deciles of wealth holders say they just want everyone to pay their “fair share”, they don’t mean nominal tax amounts. In a progressive tax system the most wealthy will always pay a higher overall amount than the less wealthy. What they mean by “fair share” is an equitable percentage (proportion) of their overall wealth (not just their incomes, which are often artificially reduced to avoid tax obligations). That includes properly taxing assets like property, equity holdings, and pensions in a similar fashion to income.