How would players react to purely performance based wages.

[mancity dan]

It's a workable framework if almost all top clubs participate. It wouldn't be an issue for top players.

Main problems stopping it would be:
1.player agents
2. player power
3. some clubs
4. player unions
5. governing bodies

The issues that could arise:

1. Clubs could expose themselves to unlimited wage bills. ie a club has a league goal scoring record, win percentage and cup runs exc champs league but including europa win. Pay out the vast majority of wages in bonuses but find that this expenditure far outstrips the financial gains for winning maybe to the point of bankruptcy.

2. Players may not be very good on the pitch but their financial value may be much higher in merchandising and sponsorship eg a certain ex manure media whore.

3. Club-player tribunals over dubious credit. ie whether they made the assist or scored the goal.

4. Team spirit loss if a large proportion of income comes from bonuses as a result of for example a certain player is picked for penalties.

5. Player collusion for example games may become strangely high scoring games could occur because players from different clubs want more money.

6.Loss of team spirit or disillusion as high bonus players will be dropped and weaker teams played say if a title was already in the bag or a team has achieved safety and there's no benefit in finishing higher.

7. as a result of six could lead to very boring end of seasons.

8.Players could accidentally on purpose injure fellow players to get closer to the team.

9. Could increase gambling led corruption on the part of bit part players to top up wage.

10. Will make contract negotiations last much longer due to complexity added.

11. Could overemphasise certain aspect of play to the point where it becomes negative to the club and other players ie ball hogging, speculative shooting.

12. Makes the wage structure a lot less transparent.

13. Make the cups less important till much later on for league cup, fa cup ( or foreign equivalents) and Europa league.

14. There's much research that says that targets and performance related pay don't achieve desired effects. Doesn't seem to work when there is a need for rudimentary cognitive ability ( so might only just work for rooney)

15. The system may be open to "gaming" for example the players may meet technical requirements for the bonus but not be concentrated on providing the best performance for the team.

16. Players may be reluctant to weigh heavily on bonuses because of fear of losing form for long periods like Torres.

17. Getting injured could seriously harm a players wages.

18. Could make it difficult to enforce a financial disciplinary procedure as basic wages being so low could mean no effective punishment.

19. Bans especially those that are debatable may cause loss of confidence.

20. May make player decisions harder as to whether they should move clubs financially.

21. When finances as well as appearances are involved may cause greater division in teams when there is a sense of favouritism.

22. player hoarding (among the U21s mainly) as a result of lower basics.

23. Summer holiday break will leave players earning less.


The problems could be solved for:

2. Greater emphasis on merchandising rights for such players.

8. Possibly include liability clauses though that may affect team cohesion.

10. Maybe create a standardised bonus types and an overview rather than it being buried in clauses and sub clauses.

11. (which will be the most common issue) Introduce increased bonuses for goals scored, appearances, trophy wins and placements, games won, drawn and clean sheets.
But also to counteract the striker- midfielder- defender- goalkeeper disparity (to be more equivalent to now). Higher clean sheet bonuses from goalkeeper to up field. Sub appearances bonused to stop sub playing time wasting as it will not be financially sensible to introduce subs 80 min +. For all players a tackle win ratio bonus, Interception bonus and aerial ball win ratio which will favour defenders. Pass completion and assists which will favour midfielder and strikers if more heavily weighted towards m/f and str.

If these outweigh or become just as important as goal scoring bonuses then the ball hogging shouldn't be an issue if there is more emphasis on the quality and competence of play.

12. Will probably solve itself at the end of the year.

13. Make greater contributions from major leagues and cups towards lesser financially lucrative cups. Like greater equality between the Europa and champions league.

17. Probably a sickness wage based on previous form but less lucrative and with penalties when self infliction is proven.

20. Use algorithms to show projected increases or decreases in overall salary relative to previous clubs from statistics.

23. Averaged wages across seasons success.

The positives I can see:

1. Don't have to provide for players who are unable or unwilling to contribute to performance.

2. Stop adebayor's, bridges, santa cruize's etc taking clubs for a ride while not playing.

3. Make it important to prove themselves for a game.

4. Could improve emphasis on all round performance.

5. Decrease expenditure on long term injured players ie michael johnson or hargreaves

6. Players like Kolo Toure would not be paid as much when banned.

7. Players like tevez may be less inclined to begin.

8. Maybe less bans as a result of emphasis on wining tackles and not getting banned.

9. May reduce risk of spending on players to gain champs league or league titles, if such targets are missed.

10. cushion relegation falls.

welcome to the forum Eddie

What a 1st post

 

[Bojinov The Bull]

It's a workable framework if almost all top clubs participate. It wouldn't be an issue for top players.

Main problems stopping it would be:
1.player agents
2. player power
3. some clubs
4. player unions
5. governing bodies

The issues that could arise:

1. Clubs could expose themselves to unlimited wage bills. ie a club has a league goal scoring record, win percentage and cup runs exc champs league but including europa win. Pay out the vast majority of wages in bonuses but find that this expenditure far outstrips the financial gains for winning maybe to the point of bankruptcy.

2. Players may not be very good on the pitch but their financial value may be much higher in merchandising and sponsorship eg a certain ex manure media whore.

3. Club-player tribunals over dubious credit. ie whether they made the assist or scored the goal.

4. Team spirit loss if a large proportion of income comes from bonuses as a result of for example a certain player is picked for penalties.

5. Player collusion for example games may become strangely high scoring games could occur because players from different clubs want more money.

6.Loss of team spirit or disillusion as high bonus players will be dropped and weaker teams played say if a title was already in the bag or a team has achieved safety and there's no benefit in finishing higher.

7. as a result of six could lead to very boring end of seasons.

8.Players could accidentally on purpose injure fellow players to get closer to the team.

9. Could increase gambling led corruption on the part of bit part players to top up wage.

10. Will make contract negotiations last much longer due to complexity added.

11. Could overemphasise certain aspect of play to the point where it becomes negative to the club and other players ie ball hogging, speculative shooting.

12. Makes the wage structure a lot less transparent.

13. Make the cups less important till much later on for league cup, fa cup ( or foreign equivalents) and Europa league.

14. There's much research that says that targets and performance related pay don't achieve desired effects. Doesn't seem to work when there is a need for rudimentary cognitive ability ( so might only just work for rooney)

15. The system may be open to "gaming" for example the players may meet technical requirements for the bonus but not be concentrated on providing the best performance for the team.

16. Players may be reluctant to weigh heavily on bonuses because of fear of losing form for long periods like Torres.

17. Getting injured could seriously harm a players wages.

18. Could make it difficult to enforce a financial disciplinary procedure as basic wages being so low could mean no effective punishment.

19. Bans especially those that are debatable may cause loss of confidence.

20. May make player decisions harder as to whether they should move clubs financially.

21. When finances as well as appearances are involved may cause greater division in teams when there is a sense of favouritism.

22. player hoarding (among the U21s mainly) as a result of lower basics.

23. Summer holiday break will leave players earning less.


The problems could be solved for:

2. Greater emphasis on merchandising rights for such players.

8. Possibly include liability clauses though that may affect team cohesion.

10. Maybe create a standardised bonus types and an overview rather than it being buried in clauses and sub clauses.

11. (which will be the most common issue) Introduce increased bonuses for goals scored, appearances, trophy wins and placements, games won, drawn and clean sheets.
But also to counteract the striker- midfielder- defender- goalkeeper disparity (to be more equivalent to now). Higher clean sheet bonuses from goalkeeper to up field. Sub appearances bonused to stop sub playing time wasting as it will not be financially sensible to introduce subs 80 min +. For all players a tackle win ratio bonus, Interception bonus and aerial ball win ratio which will favour defenders. Pass completion and assists which will favour midfielder and strikers if more heavily weighted towards m/f and str.

If these outweigh or become just as important as goal scoring bonuses then the ball hogging shouldn't be an issue if there is more emphasis on the quality and competence of play.

12. Will probably solve itself at the end of the year.

13. Make greater contributions from major leagues and cups towards lesser financially lucrative cups. Like greater equality between the Europa and champions league.

17. Probably a sickness wage based on previous form but less lucrative and with penalties when self infliction is proven.

20. Use algorithms to show projected increases or decreases in overall salary relative to previous clubs from statistics.

23. Averaged wages across seasons success.

The positives I can see:

1. Don't have to provide for players who are unable or unwilling to contribute to performance.

2. Stop adebayor's, bridges, santa cruize's etc taking clubs for a ride while not playing.

3. Make it important to prove themselves for a game.

4. Could improve emphasis on all round performance.

5. Decrease expenditure on long term injured players ie michael johnson or hargreaves

6. Players like Kolo Toure would not be paid as much when banned.

7. Players like tevez may be less inclined to begin.

8. Maybe less bans as a result of emphasis on wining tackles and not getting banned.

9. May reduce risk of spending on players to gain champs league or league titles, if such targets are missed.

10. cushion relegation falls.

welcome to the forum Eddie

What a 1st post

haha i know i was just thinking that! Didnt give it much thought then Eddie? Great post!

 

[cleavers]

If we offered players only performance based wages (and I assume you mean City only and not all clubs), you'd get nobody but the likes of Heskey, and Owen.

 

[Bojinov The Bull]

If we offered players only performance based wages (and I assume you mean City only and not all clubs), you'd get nobody but the likes of Heskey, and Owen.

I was talking about our players but obviously it wouldn't work at all unless all of the top leagues in Europe signed up to it

 

[york away to this!]

It's a workable framework if almost all top clubs participate. It wouldn't be an issue for top players.

Main problems stopping it would be:
1.player agents
2. player power
3. some clubs
4. player unions
5. governing bodies

The issues that could arise:

1. Clubs could expose themselves to unlimited wage bills. ie a club has a league goal scoring record, win percentage and cup runs exc champs league but including europa win. Pay out the vast majority of wages in bonuses but find that this expenditure far outstrips the financial gains for winning maybe to the point of bankruptcy.

2. Players may not be very good on the pitch but their financial value may be much higher in merchandising and sponsorship eg a certain ex manure media whore.

3. Club-player tribunals over dubious credit. ie whether they made the assist or scored the goal.

4. Team spirit loss if a large proportion of income comes from bonuses as a result of for example a certain player is picked for penalties.

5. Player collusion for example games may become strangely high scoring games could occur because players from different clubs want more money.

6.Loss of team spirit or disillusion as high bonus players will be dropped and weaker teams played say if a title was already in the bag or a team has achieved safety and there's no benefit in finishing higher.

7. as a result of six could lead to very boring end of seasons.

8.Players could accidentally on purpose injure fellow players to get closer to the team.

9. Could increase gambling led corruption on the part of bit part players to top up wage.

10. Will make contract negotiations last much longer due to complexity added.

11. Could overemphasise certain aspect of play to the point where it becomes negative to the club and other players ie ball hogging, speculative shooting.

12. Makes the wage structure a lot less transparent.

13. Make the cups less important till much later on for league cup, fa cup ( or foreign equivalents) and Europa league.

14. There's much research that says that targets and performance related pay don't achieve desired effects. Doesn't seem to work when there is a need for rudimentary cognitive ability ( so might only just work for rooney)

15. The system may be open to "gaming" for example the players may meet technical requirements for the bonus but not be concentrated on providing the best performance for the team.

16. Players may be reluctant to weigh heavily on bonuses because of fear of losing form for long periods like Torres.

17. Getting injured could seriously harm a players wages.

18. Could make it difficult to enforce a financial disciplinary procedure as basic wages being so low could mean no effective punishment.

19. Bans especially those that are debatable may cause loss of confidence.

20. May make player decisions harder as to whether they should move clubs financially.

21. When finances as well as appearances are involved may cause greater division in teams when there is a sense of favouritism.

22. player hoarding (among the U21s mainly) as a result of lower basics.

23. Summer holiday break will leave players earning less.


The problems could be solved for:

2. Greater emphasis on merchandising rights for such players.

8. Possibly include liability clauses though that may affect team cohesion.

10. Maybe create a standardised bonus types and an overview rather than it being buried in clauses and sub clauses.

11. (which will be the most common issue) Introduce increased bonuses for goals scored, appearances, trophy wins and placements, games won, drawn and clean sheets.
But also to counteract the striker- midfielder- defender- goalkeeper disparity (to be more equivalent to now). Higher clean sheet bonuses from goalkeeper to up field. Sub appearances bonused to stop sub playing time wasting as it will not be financially sensible to introduce subs 80 min +. For all players a tackle win ratio bonus, Interception bonus and aerial ball win ratio which will favour defenders. Pass completion and assists which will favour midfielder and strikers if more heavily weighted towards m/f and str.

If these outweigh or become just as important as goal scoring bonuses then the ball hogging shouldn't be an issue if there is more emphasis on the quality and competence of play.

12. Will probably solve itself at the end of the year.

13. Make greater contributions from major leagues and cups towards lesser financially lucrative cups. Like greater equality between the Europa and champions league.

17. Probably a sickness wage based on previous form but less lucrative and with penalties when self infliction is proven.

20. Use algorithms to show projected increases or decreases in overall salary relative to previous clubs from statistics.

23. Averaged wages across seasons success.

The positives I can see:

1. Don't have to provide for players who are unable or unwilling to contribute to performance.

2. Stop adebayor's, bridges, santa cruize's etc taking clubs for a ride while not playing.

3. Make it important to prove themselves for a game.

4. Could improve emphasis on all round performance.

5. Decrease expenditure on long term injured players ie michael johnson or hargreaves

6. Players like Kolo Toure would not be paid as much when banned.

7. Players like tevez may be less inclined to begin.

8. Maybe less bans as a result of emphasis on wining tackles and not getting banned.

9. May reduce risk of spending on players to gain champs league or league titles, if such targets are missed.

10. cushion relegation falls.

This post contains far too much sober thought and reason with not nearly enough wild speculation and irrational bias. Please leave the forum immediately by the nearest exit...

 

[RyanP3609]

I do remember from way back when Ron Saunders' Aston Villa won the title with the Gary Shaw,Peter Withe, Denis Mortimer side etc that they were on a very small wage compared to most of the players in Division One but had an incredible bonus system.

Can't seriously see a Club trying it these days with player power and Agents though can you?

Don't Swansea have something similar? Sure I read somewhere a few week ago that Swansea's wage budget is quite small (in relation to the rest of the premier league) but they give out a huge end of season bonus depending on where the team finish in the league.

It'd work incentive wise but I'm sure most players have win bonuses already in their contracts but when your on 150k and a win bonus nets you an extra 10/15k it's not much of an incentive.

If I was an owner of a mid-table/lower league Premiership or Championship team I'd go down the incentive based route. Have a team wage cap of say 30-35k then give huge bonus' dependent on where the team would finish in the league and how far they'd get in the cups etc. Obviously not big enough bonuses that it would cripple the club with debt but something that would attract the club I owned over a team around it.

 

[TCIB]

Badly

 

[NPBlue]

They would give up football and become bankers. Loads more money for even less effort.

 

[mancincali]

In one sales line of work i've had we were paid (with a base + commission) and i liked it. ON the other hand some get unrightfully F**ked. I think milner and silva would be getting paid well with likes of nasri not getting what he does. would be fantastic.

 

[Comrade Buka]

Badly