HS2 - Birmingham to Manchester scrapped.

[MillionMilesAway]

The “money can be better spent elsewhere” argument is false. Return on infrastructure investment is always considered to be 100%, so borrowing to build is not something that should be shied away from. No doubt will throw a few crumbs and try to improve cross country travel to soften the blow and that needs doing…but it should have been in addition to, not instead of

apparently not in a world where inflation is a tax.

I assume we'll get that again today.

 

[Kompany Car]

So called lesser countries in Europe and Africa are building high speed railway infrastructure, yet we can't.

Fucking embarrassing.

Well to be fair those African countries have sold their mineral wealth to China at a bargain price in return.

Instead we have sold our assets to greedy investors who just want to sweat as much money out of them as possible and invest nothing.

So I suppose its just a question of who you're indebted to.

 

[grunge]

The “money can be better spent elsewhere” argument is false. Return on infrastructure investment is always considered to be 100%, so borrowing to build is not something that should be shied away from. No doubt will throw a few crumbs and try to improve cross country travel to soften the blow and that needs doing…but it should have been in addition to, not instead of

What if that "elsewhere" is other infrastructure? Personally I feel HS2 is a solution to something that wasn't a problem. it wont take many passengers off the west coast main line as most dont travel the full route. they travel partial routes.

If we wanted to move Freight off roads and off passenger lines then custom freight lines could be built, with no need for high speed we could have built them at a fraction of the cost. that would allow more passenger trains on the existing line and free up motorway traffic space.

Personally though the money would have been better spent building a better fast line between Liverpool->Manchester->Leeds->York->Newcastle. Actually start to build this northern powerhouse they keep mentioning.

That being said, if this does get cancelled, odds are the momey will vanish into thin air rather than be spent on "better things", in which case I think it should be completed ( to the original spec, not the overground line through Manchester ) as something is better than nothing.

 

[metalblue]

apparently not in a world where inflation is a tax.

I assume we'll get that again today.

More smoke and mirrors if they try that one. Markets hate governments borrowing to pay their bills (structural debt), they don’t mind them borrowing for infrastructure when that infrastructure is designed to improve output (growth).

Getting anything done in this country is expensive - it won’t be any less expensive a decade from now - so to scrap it on cost is a false economy leaving us with the only viable reason for scrapping it being the economic rationale for doing it doesn’t stack up; ie it will bring zero growth to the north of England, which simply makes no sense. But if that’s the case, be honest about it.

 

[mrtwiceaseason]

Just sat on the Berlin to Leipzig tran chugging along at 199 KM per hour ,no idea if that's fast or not

 

[metalblue]

What if that "elsewhere" is other infrastructure? Personally I feel HS2 is a solution to something that wasn't a problem. it wont take many passengers off the west coast main line as most dont travel the full route. they travel partial routes.

If we wanted to move Freight off roads and off passenger lines then custom freight lines could be built, with no need for high speed we could have built them at a fraction of the cost. that would allow more passenger trains on the existing line and free up motorway traffic space.

Personally though the money would have been better spent building a better fast line between Liverpool->Manchester->Leeds->York->Newcastle. Actually start to build this northern powerhouse they keep mentioning.

That being said, if this does get cancelled, odds are the momey will vanish into thin air rather than be spent on "better things", in which case I think it should be completed ( to the original spec, not the overground line through Manchester ) as something is better than nothing.

You make some great points. The alternative plan needs to be ambitious. It won’t be.

 

[City Hobgoblin]

Just sat on the Berlin to Leipzig tran chugging along at 199 KM per hour ,no idea if that's fast or not

ICE ICE baby?

 

[es1]

Personally though the money would have been better spent building a better fast line between Liverpool->Manchester->Leeds->York->Newcastle. Actually start to build this northern powerhouse they keep mentioning.

announcing this is the only outcome that will make me satisfied. the north desperately needs it - what it can't be is simply an upgrading of the existing line, that isnt good enough.

i've been in the rail engineering industry for 12 years and upgrading the transpennine line was one of the first projects i worked on and it's gone practically nowhere since! i've been on HS2 phase 1 for about 4 years now and our company has spent many thousands (and me many hours) bidding for parts of phase 2. disappointing to see it go but hardly surprised.

 

[Kompany Car]

Just sat on the Berlin to Leipzig tran chugging along at 199 KM per hour ,no idea if that's fast or not

Its about as fast as the trains on the East Coast Mainline. But at a much cheaper cost per mile to the passenger.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

More smoke and mirrors if they try that one. Markets hate governments borrowing to pay their bills (structural debt), they don’t mind them borrowing for infrastructure when that infrastructure is designed to improve output (growth).

Getting anything done in this country is expensive - it won’t be any less expensive a decade from now - so to scrap it on cost is a false economy leaving us with the only viable reason for scrapping it being the economic rationale for doing it doesn’t stack up; ie it will bring zero growth to the north of England, which simply makes no sense. But if that’s the case, be honest about it.

Indeed. It just looks like making it a Labour expense, not a Conservative one - that's certainly how it will be claimed in the future.

Shutting it down and restarting it will cost more than carrying on.