Hughes is to blame

[GStar]

But as JohnMaddocksaxe says just because you give someone time doesn't mean they can suddenly magic themselves someone who can dramatically improve things. I fail to recognise where this where this blind optimism comes from.

The shocking fact is that without the 2nd influx of players we had at christmas we would be in serious trouble right now. Despite the reluctance to change due to

1. Fear of the unknown
2. Our recent history

you have to admit things aren't right at the club and the performances throughout the season prove. It is for that reason why we need to change in management and to be honest I say its not just MH and his team who have to go but for me the spiv Cook has to go to.

You can't debate something if your mind is completely closed on it. You also can't debate with someone who makes things up; your two points about why we didnt change the formation (which is wrong, we played 4-4-2 at BBurn for a start) before Christmas, i'd suggest was down to the lack of depth and qualit within the squad. A manager can only work with the tools at his disposal, but you neglect that and many other things in persuit of attacking solely the manager and backroom staff.

I'm not 100% happy with this season, but theres been signs, on and off the pitch of us heading in the right direction... these first few seasons are huge in potential but they're also tiny in the grand scheme of things. It just feels like some of us are forgetting the bigger picture completely.

 

[pee dubya]

How dare anybody question the messiah Hughes is the man he's doing such great job we should give him a big contract 5 more years and we might just get into the top 6 get him signed

Posts like that really don't help your cause.

No-one on here is claiming Hughes is the messiah and no-one is claiming that this season has been particularly successfull (could change with UEFA cup). Hughes has had 1 season, of massive turmoil and change. I've seen enough in this season, from his signings, the way he handles himself, and the home performances to trust him with another season. I genuinely think, if we stick with him, next season we will improve drastically. If we don't then fine, new manager.

But as JohnMaddocksaxe says just because you give someone time doesn't mean they can suddenly magic themselves someone who can dramatically improve things. I fail to recognise where this where this blind optimism comes from.

The shocking fact is that without the 2nd influx of players we had at christmas we would be in serious trouble right now. Despite the reluctance to change due to

1. Fear of the unknown
2. Our recent history

you have to admit things aren't right at the club and the performances throughout the season prove. It is for that reason why we need to change in management and to be honest I say its not just MH and his team who have to go but for me the spiv Cook has to go to.

Things haven't been right at the club for God knows how many years, expecting that to be sorted out in one season is a wee bit hasty i think. Basically i'm putting my trust in Hughes, he's not going to get us relegated, so i see little harm in giving him the chance.

 

[JohnMaddocksAxe]

How dare anybody question the messiah Hughes is the man he's doing such great job we should give him a big contract 5 more years and we might just get into the top 6 get him signed

Posts like that really don't help your cause.

No-one on here is claiming Hughes is the messiah and no-one is claiming that this season has been particularly successfull (could change with UEFA cup). Hughes has had 1 season, of massive turmoil and change. I've seen enough in this season, from his signings, the way he handles himself, and the home performances to trust him with another season. I genuinely think, if we stick with him, next season we will improve drastically. If we don't then fine, new manager.

I don't get this.

Taking each point in turn:

His signings. A mixed bag but on the whole quite good.

Jo - handled badly imo. There is a player in there and to give up after 6 months in a new country is poor, whether it is all down to on the pitch stuff, moral, or off the pitch stuff it is very poor man management.

TBH - Poor signing. And a signing that was his.

De Jong - Good.

Kompany - Good

SWP - Good

Given - Good

Berti - WTF?

Bellamy - Good but a desperately short termism buy.

My question to all those who laud the signings so much is which of those is either a) particular value for money or b) a player that, given the money available, was a player that would not have come under the consideration of any other manager with that budget. There's not a single player he has bought who was not an 'obvious' signing of already proven quality. Given our budget, would you expect anything less?

The way he handles himself: The fact that there are some terrible managers around who cannot present a professional image is a poor reflection on them, not a good reflection on Hughes, who can. It should be expected. However, in the scheme of things it matters little if it does not translate on the pitch. George Graham is perhaps the most dapper and professionally turned out manager in the English game in twenty years. They are not lining up to employ him. It is a meaningless attribute. Nice to have but not an indicator of a good manager at all.

The Home Performances: Judgements are not made on a selection of games that are skewed towards one way or another. They are made as a whole. The performances as a whole have been woeful and see us 3 points in front of Stoke, two behind Fulham, 4 ahead of Hull, etc, etc. If I were to say he is the worst manager in our history based on the away games, would that be fair? No it wouldn't as I am skewing the argument. The only measure is performances as a whole. They have, apart from a handful of games, been well below reasonable expectation in every competition.

Then we are left with the 'give him time' argument. Which is never a reason for letting someone who is consistently underperforming continuing.

Can we be genuine and just say that people are scared of changing manager and are completely wedded to the 'patience' cliche, instead of clutching at straws and naming weaker and weaker 'positives' from the season.

The signings are the only 'positives' from this season so far (granted, that could change now we are playing decent teams in the UEFA cup). And given our budget and that all the signings are proven quality, for the money spent, what exactly would you expect from our signings?

 

[bizzbo]

The Home Performances: Judgements are not made on a selection of games that are skewed towards one way or another. They are made as a whole. The performances as a whole have been woeful and see us 3 points in front of Stoke, two behind Fulham, 4 ahead of Hull, etc, etc. If I were to say he is the worst manager in our history based on the away games, would that be fair? No it wouldn't as I am skewing the argument. The only measure is performances as a whole. They have, apart from a handful of games, been well below reasonable expectation in every competition.

Then we are left with the 'give him time' argument. Which is never a reason for letting someone who is consistently underperforming continuing.

Can we be genuine and just say that people are scared of changing manager and are completely wedded to the 'patience' cliche, instead of clutching at straws and naming weaker and weaker 'positives' from the season.

The signings are the only 'positives' from this season so far (granted, that could change now we are playing decent teams in the UEFA cup). And given our budget and that all the signings are proven quality, for the money spent, what exactly would you expect from our signings?

john your argument is that we have not had an acceptable season. for god's sakes man anyone can see that we still have a chance (i'm not saying its a great chance) to win the uefa cup and finish 7th, which would be pretty outstanding. until we are out of the uefa cup and our league position is decided, you are building an argument on thin air... or rather, your rather jaded vision of how things are gonna turn out.

 

[JohnMaddocksAxe]

Actually, I am building my argument on facts. The facts that we have been, all things considered, way below reasonable expectations in every competition (including the UEFA cup given the opposititon).

You are building your argument on thin air, basing it on the possibility of us finishing 7th and winning the UEFA cup. Both of which have not happened and both of which you would get good odds on happening.

Anyway, I must go now.

 

[pee dubya]

I don't get this.

Taking each point in turn:

His signings. A mixed bag but on the whole quite good.

Jo - handled badly imo. There is a player in there and to give up after 6 months in a new country is poor, whether it is all down to on the pitch stuff, moral, or off the pitch stuff it is very poor man management.

TBH - Poor signing. And a signing that was his.

De Jong - Good.

Kompany - Good

SWP - Good

Given - Good

Berti - WTF?

Bellamy - Good but a desperately short termism buy.

My question to all those who laud the signings so much is which of those is either a) particular value for money or b) a player that, given the money available, was a player that would not have come under the consideration of any other manager with that budget. There's not a single player he has bought who was not an 'obvious' signing of already proven quality. Given our budget, would you expect anything less?

The way he handles himself: The fact that there are some terrible managers around who cannot present a professional image is a poor reflection on them, not a good reflection on Hughes, who can. It should be expected. However, in the scheme of things it matters little if it does not translate on the pitch. George Graham is perhaps the most dapper and professionally turned out manager in the English game in twenty years. They are not lining up to employ him. It is a meaningless attribute. Nice to have but not an indicator of a good manager at all.

The Home Performances: Judgements are not made on a selection of games that are skewed towards one way or another. They are made as a whole. The performances as a whole have been woeful and see us 3 points in front of Stoke, two behind Fulham, 4 ahead of Hull, etc, etc. If I were to say he is the worst manager in our history based on the away games, would that be fair? No it wouldn't as I am skewing the argument. The only measure is performances as a whole. They have, apart from a handful of games, been well below reasonable expectation in every competition.

Then we are left with the 'give him time' argument. Which is never a reason for letting someone who is consistently underperforming continuing.

Can we be genuine and just say that people are scared of changing manager and are completely wedded to the 'patience' cliche, instead of clutching at straws and naming weaker and weaker 'positives' from the season.

The signings are the only 'positives' from this season so far (granted, that could change now we are playing decent teams in the UEFA cup). And given our budget and that all the signings are proven quality, for the money spent, what exactly would you expect from our signings?

You missed out Zabaleta and Bridge ;-).

And how come you're advocating giving Jo time, yet after 6 months you were calling for Hughes to be sacked? Jo was constantly under performing.

I don't think you really understood the point i was making, especially about home form. I was merely saying that our form at home shows the potential level of performance under Hughes, and our home form has been excellent. Given more time and patience (oooh cliche) and another transfer window i see no reason why our away form can't be addressed. Reasonable away form, plus excellent home form = competing with Villa, Everton and Arsenal.

I'm pretty sure it's very easy to spunk away money, no matter how much you have, on the wrong players. I'm not sure you would consider Zabaleta, De Jong, Kompany and erm Berti to be obvious signings either.

Anyway, this is a futile discussion, so i'll leave it there.

 

[Shaysleftpeg]

Lets be honest Hughes is not responsible for the signing of Jo.....He was on his way when we still had sven....If hughes had got his way we would have spent 20 mill on Santa Cruz or some alternative (Podolski perhaps?)

 

[JohnMaddocksAxe]

Poor mistake to forget Zab and Bridge. Again, I would rate them as decent signings (although Zab is never a midfielder, other than in the sens that Phil Neville is a midfielder when he sits in for Everton and spoils - that's a different debate though).

Anyway, every top flight manager in Europe would know of Zab, De Jong and Kompany and that they were all international players who had proven their ability in decent leagues. If any of them didn't know that then they deserved to be sacked for having a complete neglect of their duties as a manager. I certainly knew about them and I bet most on here did too.

I'll give you Berti though. I still don't know who he is. Amazing knowledge from Hughes.

 

[Bill]

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this, then add.
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[bluemanc]

Actually, I am building my argument on facts. The facts that we have been, all things considered, way below reasonable expectations in every competition (including the UEFA cup given the opposititon).

You are building your argument on thin air, basing it on the possibility of us finishing 7th and winning the UEFA cup. Both of which have not happened and both of which you would get good odds on happening.

Anyway, I must go now.

,

I am building my argument on facts

PMSL,nothing you ever post no matter how fuckin long does that.
One agenda & only one.