Wheelsy
Well-Known Member
You know what shits me? The fact that two of our only "creative" players are out on loans. Players that at least get you out of your seat in anticipation occasionally.
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Hughes' Legacy
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allblackcitizen
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 18 Aug 2008
- Messages
- 1,867
Wheelsy said:You know what shits me? The fact that two of our only "creative" players are out on loans. Players that at least get you out of your seat in anticipation occasionally.
Etuhu and ... you'll have to tell me the other one.
sweynforkbeard
Well-Known Member
Hughes legacy?-when did he die? Has he left me anything?
simon23
Well-Known Member
we never had any probs scoring golas under MH...the prob was conceeding them
now under mancini we are creating less, we are playing a lot more defesively and so conceeding less.
mancini has stopped one problem but created another...he needs to get the balance right and so far he hasnt done it.
my fear is that he is unable to get the balance right as this is his way of playing
we have the players to do it but he needs to start finsing the right formations (stop p[laying players out of position!!) and the right balance
for liverpool id like to see
given
richards kompany lescott bridge
swp dejong ireland bellamy
tevez
ade
this team has it all.....strenght in the middle with dejong and ireland....... and tevez who will defned from the front
it has pace on the wings to attack and defend with both bellmay and swp excellent at both aspects of the game.
it has two fullbacks (esp bRIDGE) who can attack
it has height and pace in ade (as well as swp and bellamy)
height at the back and pace with kompany and lescott
playing ireland centrally means there wil be someone to link attack and defence...irelands abilit to defend is underrated by people on here and hasnt been realised by mancini yet either
if tevez isnt back for the liverpool game then you push ireland into that role and you play barry in the centre with dejong.
now under mancini we are creating less, we are playing a lot more defesively and so conceeding less.
mancini has stopped one problem but created another...he needs to get the balance right and so far he hasnt done it.
my fear is that he is unable to get the balance right as this is his way of playing
we have the players to do it but he needs to start finsing the right formations (stop p[laying players out of position!!) and the right balance
for liverpool id like to see
given
richards kompany lescott bridge
swp dejong ireland bellamy
tevez
ade
this team has it all.....strenght in the middle with dejong and ireland....... and tevez who will defned from the front
it has pace on the wings to attack and defend with both bellmay and swp excellent at both aspects of the game.
it has two fullbacks (esp bRIDGE) who can attack
it has height and pace in ade (as well as swp and bellamy)
height at the back and pace with kompany and lescott
playing ireland centrally means there wil be someone to link attack and defence...irelands abilit to defend is underrated by people on here and hasnt been realised by mancini yet either
if tevez isnt back for the liverpool game then you push ireland into that role and you play barry in the centre with dejong.
PragueBlue
Well-Known Member
simon23 said:we have the players to do it but he needs to start finsing the right formations (stop p[laying players out of position!!) and the right balance
for liverpool id like to see
given
richards kompany lescott bridge
swp dejong ireland bellamy
tevez
ade
And how many times has Mancini had the opportunity to pick that team? A grand total of 0.
He should stop playing players out of position but should play Bellamy (that's Craig Bellamy the forward I assume) on the left wing in a 4=4=2?
Also IMO Ireland has always seemed to struggle in a central midfield 2.
Would be interesting to see that formation given a chance but doubt it is going to solve our problems. New players are needed for that I believe.
PhuketBlue said:simon23 said:we have the players to do it but he needs to start finsing the right formations (stop p[laying players out of position!!) and the right balance
for liverpool id like to see
given
richards kompany lescott bridge
swp dejong ireland bellamy
tevez
ade
And how many times has Mancini had the opportunity to pick that team? A grand total of 0.
He should stop playing players out of position but should play Bellamy (that's Craig Bellamy the forward I assume) on the left wing in a 4=4=2?
Also IMO Ireland has always seemed to struggle in a central midfield 2.
Would be interesting to see that formation given a chance but doubt it is going to solve our problems. New players are needed for that I believe.
What has Ireland done as a center mid this entire season? What did SWP do against Stoke on the wing? Bellamy and Tevez were out for the last games.
Sorry but its far more difficult than some people think. I´m smart enough to know that I know too little to pick the squad or the tactics... I wonder why they pay all those managers so much if anyone could do it...
Unknown_Genius
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 6 Jan 2009
- Messages
- 5,840
IFeedGoats said:Elano, one of the best creative mids in the world,
Say that again, with a straight face.
Etuhu and ... you'll have to tell me the other one.
I think he means Weiss. Not sure who the other fella is.
r.soleofsalford
Well-Known Member
badge said:the three signings he made for central midfield, kompany, de jong and barry, have collectively scored four goals in ninety-eight appearances. i think this is what i think mancini is referring to when talking about 'changing the mentality' - we just don't have the midfield to drive us forward and why we never seem to have enough players busting a gut to join the attack. can't explain why bobby bought vieira though!
it would have been interesting to see if this mariga fella could have done the business.
i think he bought viera because he could see our midfield get brushed out of the way when up against a team of battlers like stoke, bolton, etc
I apologise in advance for the length of my post but I feel a thorough assessment is required.
I have to say that for the money Hughes was given, he should have been able to assemble a top 'team.' It is all well and good for people to say that we should have given him more time, but you have to understand that there is nothing in Hughes' past that suggests that he is good enough to be a top manager. All the talk about best 'up and coming' manager is an attempt to mask the distinct lack of quality British managers (anyone remember what happened to the last best 'up and coming' British manager who was given a top job, that Steve 'wally with the brolley' McClaren). You cannot give people time based on a distinct lack of previous credentials. This is the case in all walks of life, if someone's experience extended to filing their dad's tax returns, they could not just walk into a job at KPMG! Hughes did not qualify for a major tournament with Wales and the highlight of his managerial career is finishing 7th with Blackburn. Many give comparisons with Ferguson and say well he did not achieve in his first few seasons with the Rags but was still given time. The important difference between the situations is that Ferguson had already achieved something is his career having broken the Rangers/Celtic duopoly with Aberdeen and then going on to win the European Cup Winners' Cup beating Bayern Munich and Real Madrid along the way!
A taste of Hughes as a manager was when at the end of last season he said that it was unfair that Harry Redknapp got a lot of praise for finishing 9th and he did not for finishing 10th! Twitcher took the Tottenham job with them bottom of the table with 2 points from 8 games! Hughes took a team which finished 9th the year before (would have been higher but Sven was told he was out before the end of the season hence the shocking end of season form i.e. 8-1 loss to 'boro) spent over 70m (NOT including the 50m signings of Jo and Robinho, as much as everyone hates the latter he was our top scorer last year) and finished one place lower in 10th and wanted praise for such an outstanding achievement!
Although many on this forum have said Hughes bought well, I am afraid I disagree, any 12 year old with even rudimentary knowledge of the Premier League could have bought those players. He did not seem to want to leave his comfort zone, so decided to not to look further then the end of his nose for talent without any thought about how they would play together. There were no unearthed gems or inspired signings, bar perhaps Kompany. Some may argue that De Jong was an exceptional buy but that was for 17m (would have been 2.5m at the end of the season), hardly cheap. You may argue well 'we can afford it' so who cares, but I think that is an extremely immature viewpoint. If you were a millionaire and wanted a Ferrari would you pay twice the price for it, just because you could afford it?
The team assembled by Hughes is very disjointed and I am amazed at the lack of players who can actually pass the ball. If you look at any of the top sides, United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Barca, Madrid, Inter, Milan, they move the ball around with consummate ease. For the amount of money spent we should have players who can pass the ball better.
I have nothing against Hughes personally and in fact I do have some sympathy for him, in that we were never going to sign the big players (Kaka, Terry) and it was very difficult to attract good players to the club, but I still think he should have done better. I feel many people on this forum wrongly believe (perhaps due to the limited success of this club and lack of top players for the last few decades, or maybe the good results against, Arsenal and Chelsea) that many of our players are among the best in the League. Prime examples of this are the superlatives thrown at players like De Jong and Barry. I have said on this forum before that I believe this is where the main weakness in our team lies. I find the comparisons between De Jong and Makelee completely unwarranted the latter was the engine of a Real Madrid team that won the Champions League and could actually pass the ball around. De Jong does things well, he is a fighter, he puts his foot in, he gets into the oppositions faces, but for the level we want to be at he should be able to pass the ball much better. His first instinct when he gets the ball is turn around and pass it backwards, when in reality that should be the last choice, once all other options are exhausted. Barry, again is praised and while he has produced for Villa and England, he looks poor in a city shirt. If he is carrying an injury then I am prepared to give him time, but a couple of decent performances does not warrant him to be classed among the best midfield players in the league (Essien, Lampard, Ballack, Gerard, Mascharano, Fabregas).
People keep blaming Mancini for not playing Ireland and SWP, but fail to remember that these two players are out of form and are unlikely to just produce in the middle of a match. Lots of people also wanted to see Santa Cruz and Adebayor play together but when that happens, Mancini is again criticised for poor team selection. Understandably, many are feeling frustrated by our recent performances, but Mancini can only work with what he has got until the end of the season. The reason I feel that he deserves some time is that unlike Hughes he has achieved success in his previous clubs. Whatever people think about the standard of the Seria A, not anyone can just become the manager of Inter, the are owned by Billionaire Moratti and he has high standards. Of course, Mancini had a lot of luck but 3 Seria A titles (in a row) and cup wins with Fiorentina and Lazio are not to be hastily dismissed.
Also, to Mancini's credit he identified our weaknesses in midfield, while everyone on here was still going on about our defence and attempted to address the problem in the January window, but unfortunately we could not sign Mariga, Gago or Flamini. I also, feel that good results have masked a lot of our deficiencies (namely our lack of passing and movement). Mancini probably thought he did not need to do add too much to a winning team and spent most of his time planning for the CC semi with the Rags and by the time he realised that we had problems the window had closed.
It will take time for the players to adjust to a completely different system and although early signs are not encouraging we are somehow still 4th in the table with a game in hand and have a cup replay at Stoke to look forward to. Whatever peoples view, Mancini will be our manager until at least the end of the season, so let us wait until then to make up our minds about him and who if anyone should replace him. Mourinho is not taking over next week, no matter how badly people want him to and I would like to add, even if he did, it would take him at least a few months to stamp his authority on the squad and turn the team into winners.
So let us put all the rumours to bed and back the team to finish the season on a high, there is plenty of time in the summer to assess the situation if things do not improve!
I have to say that for the money Hughes was given, he should have been able to assemble a top 'team.' It is all well and good for people to say that we should have given him more time, but you have to understand that there is nothing in Hughes' past that suggests that he is good enough to be a top manager. All the talk about best 'up and coming' manager is an attempt to mask the distinct lack of quality British managers (anyone remember what happened to the last best 'up and coming' British manager who was given a top job, that Steve 'wally with the brolley' McClaren). You cannot give people time based on a distinct lack of previous credentials. This is the case in all walks of life, if someone's experience extended to filing their dad's tax returns, they could not just walk into a job at KPMG! Hughes did not qualify for a major tournament with Wales and the highlight of his managerial career is finishing 7th with Blackburn. Many give comparisons with Ferguson and say well he did not achieve in his first few seasons with the Rags but was still given time. The important difference between the situations is that Ferguson had already achieved something is his career having broken the Rangers/Celtic duopoly with Aberdeen and then going on to win the European Cup Winners' Cup beating Bayern Munich and Real Madrid along the way!
A taste of Hughes as a manager was when at the end of last season he said that it was unfair that Harry Redknapp got a lot of praise for finishing 9th and he did not for finishing 10th! Twitcher took the Tottenham job with them bottom of the table with 2 points from 8 games! Hughes took a team which finished 9th the year before (would have been higher but Sven was told he was out before the end of the season hence the shocking end of season form i.e. 8-1 loss to 'boro) spent over 70m (NOT including the 50m signings of Jo and Robinho, as much as everyone hates the latter he was our top scorer last year) and finished one place lower in 10th and wanted praise for such an outstanding achievement!
Although many on this forum have said Hughes bought well, I am afraid I disagree, any 12 year old with even rudimentary knowledge of the Premier League could have bought those players. He did not seem to want to leave his comfort zone, so decided to not to look further then the end of his nose for talent without any thought about how they would play together. There were no unearthed gems or inspired signings, bar perhaps Kompany. Some may argue that De Jong was an exceptional buy but that was for 17m (would have been 2.5m at the end of the season), hardly cheap. You may argue well 'we can afford it' so who cares, but I think that is an extremely immature viewpoint. If you were a millionaire and wanted a Ferrari would you pay twice the price for it, just because you could afford it?
The team assembled by Hughes is very disjointed and I am amazed at the lack of players who can actually pass the ball. If you look at any of the top sides, United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Barca, Madrid, Inter, Milan, they move the ball around with consummate ease. For the amount of money spent we should have players who can pass the ball better.
I have nothing against Hughes personally and in fact I do have some sympathy for him, in that we were never going to sign the big players (Kaka, Terry) and it was very difficult to attract good players to the club, but I still think he should have done better. I feel many people on this forum wrongly believe (perhaps due to the limited success of this club and lack of top players for the last few decades, or maybe the good results against, Arsenal and Chelsea) that many of our players are among the best in the League. Prime examples of this are the superlatives thrown at players like De Jong and Barry. I have said on this forum before that I believe this is where the main weakness in our team lies. I find the comparisons between De Jong and Makelee completely unwarranted the latter was the engine of a Real Madrid team that won the Champions League and could actually pass the ball around. De Jong does things well, he is a fighter, he puts his foot in, he gets into the oppositions faces, but for the level we want to be at he should be able to pass the ball much better. His first instinct when he gets the ball is turn around and pass it backwards, when in reality that should be the last choice, once all other options are exhausted. Barry, again is praised and while he has produced for Villa and England, he looks poor in a city shirt. If he is carrying an injury then I am prepared to give him time, but a couple of decent performances does not warrant him to be classed among the best midfield players in the league (Essien, Lampard, Ballack, Gerard, Mascharano, Fabregas).
People keep blaming Mancini for not playing Ireland and SWP, but fail to remember that these two players are out of form and are unlikely to just produce in the middle of a match. Lots of people also wanted to see Santa Cruz and Adebayor play together but when that happens, Mancini is again criticised for poor team selection. Understandably, many are feeling frustrated by our recent performances, but Mancini can only work with what he has got until the end of the season. The reason I feel that he deserves some time is that unlike Hughes he has achieved success in his previous clubs. Whatever people think about the standard of the Seria A, not anyone can just become the manager of Inter, the are owned by Billionaire Moratti and he has high standards. Of course, Mancini had a lot of luck but 3 Seria A titles (in a row) and cup wins with Fiorentina and Lazio are not to be hastily dismissed.
Also, to Mancini's credit he identified our weaknesses in midfield, while everyone on here was still going on about our defence and attempted to address the problem in the January window, but unfortunately we could not sign Mariga, Gago or Flamini. I also, feel that good results have masked a lot of our deficiencies (namely our lack of passing and movement). Mancini probably thought he did not need to do add too much to a winning team and spent most of his time planning for the CC semi with the Rags and by the time he realised that we had problems the window had closed.
It will take time for the players to adjust to a completely different system and although early signs are not encouraging we are somehow still 4th in the table with a game in hand and have a cup replay at Stoke to look forward to. Whatever peoples view, Mancini will be our manager until at least the end of the season, so let us wait until then to make up our minds about him and who if anyone should replace him. Mourinho is not taking over next week, no matter how badly people want him to and I would like to add, even if he did, it would take him at least a few months to stamp his authority on the squad and turn the team into winners.
So let us put all the rumours to bed and back the team to finish the season on a high, there is plenty of time in the summer to assess the situation if things do not improve!
hbruz80 said:SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE READ
Please post more. Thanks for putting some thought in to your post and not posting one sentence garbage that adds really adds nothing to the discussion. You shouldn´t be apologizing at all.
But yeah the thing is that most people think they understand the game better than they do. It was the same with Hughes as well. If he played SWP on the wing then everyone went on about how he is too light and gets bullied off the ball and just runs straight and is useless and then if he didn´t play then Hughes was again called an idiot for not playing him as he was the player that could make something happen...