If the rot continues what happens ?

[Damocles]

XG WTF is that doing in football...

It's a statistic that takes into account shot positioning and difficulty in order to set a numerical value to the likelihood of scoring the shot based on those and hundreds of thousands of historical datapoints with similar positioning and difficulty. Why the more vocal conservatives in football have suddenly taken offensive to this thing that's been around for about 20 years now, I don't know.

 

[Keeper!]

If football were that simple, people like Pep Guardiola wouldn't be paid the enormous sums they are. Everybody runs to the infamous Brian Clough quote but it's just wrong. Hundreds of people work in the technical department at the club all in, they're not just there to spaff off. This stuff is important.

It's not, Players ran through brick walls for Pep like they did for Clough, Fergusson, Paisley and Co.

Great coaches still need great players, but they are incredible with people , they make even the most gifted player do things that lesser coaches could not do.

Coaching for me is hugely overrated at elite level , it's the working relationships made that make great teams and ultimately destroy them.

 

[Keeper!]

It's a statistic that takes into account shot positioning and difficulty in order to set a numerical value to the likelihood of scoring the shot based on those and hundreds of thousands of historical datapoints with similar positioning and difficulty. Why the more vocal conservatives in football have suddenly taken offensive to this thing that's been around for about 20 years now, I don't know.

It's utter and total crap.

Teams get lucky, teams get unlucky, how many times have you seen our great sides play poorly yet we score a hat full?

And we have seen us destroy teams with incredible football and win a game with a scruffy goal, that's what makes football such a great game.

 

[Damocles]

The problem with football is, the stats genuinely can lie, probability is fantastic but people view the game with their eyes and if what they see on the pitch is crap uninspiring football with lots of possession but little to no end result and seemingly lots of chances against us that teams score from every game, that is what it is judged on. I couldn't give a shite about predicted XG and all that sort of stuff, if the predictions were correct all the time there wouldn't be cupsets etc.

Merry Christmas BTW, all I've asked for is 3 points...

Again, we're talking about different things and I'm not sure why people are conflating the two.
The purpose of tactics is to create more than the opposition essentially in a so called "normal" game, which is what we've done a lot during this losing run.
What you're talking about are player mistakes. This is nothing to do with tactics. We know exactly how we're supposed to play and the numbers show that even at this reduced rate with injuries and fatigue, we're STILL being unlucky and having moments of madness.
Watching the game shows you how people perform, looking at the numbers over many games tells you how your tactic performs, somewhat simplified.

 

[Damocles]

It's not, Players ran through brick walls for Pep like they did for Clough, Fergusson, Paisley and Co.

Great coaches still need great players, but they are incredible with people , they make even the most gifted player do things that lesser coaches could not do.

Coaching for me is hugely overrated at elite level , it's the working relationships made that make great teams and ultimately destroy them.

People ran through brick walls for them because they won matches. You can be as a "great leader" (which is also not how football functions generally) as much as you want but if you're getting stuffed at Coventry it doesn't matter. Ferguson had his legion of worshippers and pashun merchants and didn't win a league title for 3/4 years because he was playing 4-4-2 years after that had gone by the wayside. It wasn't until he brought in Quieroz and Muelensteen and others who could actually understand that you need 5 in a midfield that they started to win again. Clough without his "tactics guy", well we know what happened there.
Again, the absolute experts in the game who have to put their money where their mouth is and invest billions into the sport all massively value coaching and data because they understand its importance.
In fact, Pep Guardiola himself recently said that a major part of our form is down to not enough coaching at the moment because everybody is injured or on recovery so he had a training session with 1 player a couple of weeks ago.
The outdated and very English view of football being a game of who tries the hardest is such a massive oversimplification to be almost pointless. Football now is closer to a chess game with ploys and gambits than it is a footrace

 

[Keeper!]

People ran through brick walls for them because they won matches. You can be as a "great leader" (which is also not how football functions generally) as much as you want but if you're getting stuffed at Coventry it doesn't matter. Ferguson had his legion of worshippers and pashun merchants and didn't win a league title for 3/4 years because he was playing 4-4-2 years after that had gone by the wayside. It wasn't until he brought in Quieroz and Muelensteen and others who could actually understand that you need 5 in a midfield that they started to win again. Clough without his "tactics guy", well we know what happened there.
Again, the absolute experts in the game who have to put their money where their mouth is and invest billions into the sport all massively value coaching and data because they understand its importance.
In fact, Pep Guardiola himself recently said that a major part of our form is down to not enough coaching at the moment because everybody is injured or on recovery so he had a training session with 1 player a couple of weeks ago.

The demands Pep made on these guys was extraordinary and what he got back was incredible, the appetite and desire of theses guys was simply beyond levels anyone could have expected.

To win the title after the treble season was simply magnificent, that was not coaching, that was utter love, belief and respect.

 

[Kippax Street 1880]

Pep simply needs to be pragmatic.
He hasn't been for the last 8 years and has won 6 out of 8 titles so I'm not going to criticise him that much. All I will say is we are in a rut and if Pep was to be more defensive minded and hit on the break more the problems would melt away.

Doesn't have the players to play that way nor the time in between matches on the training pitch to implement a wholesale change in tactics.

 

[Damocles]

The demands Pep made on these guys was extraordinary and what he got back was incredible, the appetite and desire of theses guys was simply beyond levels anyone could have expected.

To win the title after the treble season was simply magnificent, that was not coaching, that was utter love, belief and respect.

It was all of the above. Soriano gave a wonderful speech on leadership a good 15 years ago now, where he described the perfect balance of a great manager. He said you can be demanding but a tactical genius like Van Gaal which is great when you're winning but when things go bad the players will get you sacked. You can be a great man manager like Rijkaard where the players will like you but you can't win because you lack the technical talent/knowledge. Or you can very rarely have both which he used Pep as an example of.

This is true in my experience in life too. I've had managers who I love but are clearly out of their depth and managers who are competent but you want to lamp. The ones who are both very competent and you also are motivated by is very small.

 

[halfcenturyup]

It was all of the above. Soriano gave a wonderful speech on leadership a good 15 years ago now, where he described the perfect balance of a great manager. He said you can be demanding but a tactical genius like Van Gaal which is great when you're winning but when things go bad the players will get you sacked. You can be a great man manager like Rijkaard where the players will like you but you can't win because you lack the technical talent/knowledge. Or you can very rarely have both which he used Pep as an example of.

This is true in my experience in life too. I've had managers who I love but are clearly out of their depth and managers who are competent but you want to lamp. The ones who are both very competent and you also are motivated by is very small.

Yes, there aren't many of us around .....

 

[ysmsa]

If football were that simple, people like Pep Guardiola wouldn't be paid the enormous sums they are. Everybody runs to the infamous Brian Clough quote but it's just wrong. Hundreds of people work in the technical department at the club all in, they're not just there to spaff off. This stuff is important.

People forget you are up against 11 professional, super fit top footballers who are trying their hardest to stop you.

It's a lot easier to keep it out than get it in.

We seem to be focusing too much on keeping the ball and hoping something develops instead of taking a chance once in a while if it means losing the ball.

Our best defence in Europe has been neglected and looks vulnerable.

Haaland would love the chance to run with the ball at a defender and get a shot away, i'd love to see it more often.

Back to basics, tight defence take more chances and our better playes can turn this around I reckon.