If the rot continues what happens ?

[chiswick blue]

It would only be unacceptable had we not had an injury crisis like we’ve had.

That - plus the inevitable drop-off after years of high intensity - is why the form is like it is due to the results being poor off the back off the injuries and confidence being low off the back of the results.

Today was always going to be a really bad day for performance and we may have snuck a result if we were lucky. This is essentially the same starting 11 that has been so poor recently so why did we expect a sudden improvement, not going to happen.

However we’re missing Akanji, Stones, Ake, Kovacic and have other players who are clearly struggling such as Kev, Docu and Phil. There isn’t a team in the league that would struggle with this happening but it will not last

 

[Lovebitesandeveryfing]

Pulling this out from another thread. Put a bit of time into doing some research this afternoon and painted an interesting picture for myself.

Something we have to remember is that this current setback - major as it feels - won't last long. We're now so big, so well-run, and so successful, that we'll simply never fuck off from the top table for long ever again. If Pep or the players aren't pulling their weight, we simply change things in the summer and spend big bucks to get things right again. Should the 130 charges hit and slam us down the divisions, our sheer size will bring us back up inside 10 years, possibly sooner.

We simply have too much money now, and too big a following, for us to ever be relegated via normal means. Like it or not, that's just the way football is now - solid money keeps you safe. So long as you have a semi-decent structure and a lot of cash, it's basically impossible to fall on genuinely hard times. Whether through will, determination, cash, or other means, the turds that would sink in any other era of football just don't get fully flushed anymore.

Between the Second World War and the early 1980s, First Division title winners would expect to experience burnout the following season, or they wouldn't be able to keep a quality team and staff together for a 5 or 10-year stretch like you can now. It was just expected that great teams would have their day in the sun and then go back to mid-table (or lower) while another team got a turn at creating a few special memories for themselves.

Wolves won the First Divison in 1958 and 1959 and won the FA Cup in 1960, were almost relegated in 1962 and were finally relegated in 1965. Burnley won the First Division in 1960, collapsed to 9th by 1964 and were relegated in 1971 after years of finishing 12th-14th. West Brom won the League Cup in 1966 and the FA Cup in 1968, relegated in 1973. Derby County were First Division champions in 1972 and 1975, but were relegated in 1980.

You could even look at City: First Division winners in 1968, FA Cup in 1969, Cup Winners Cup in 1970, finished 11th in 1971. Then won the League Cup in 1976 and went for the title in 1977 - relegated in 1983. And United: won the first Division in 1967 and the European Cup in 1968, but were relegated in 1974. Leeds won everything in sight between 1968 and 1974 but were in Division Two by 1982.

Nottm Forest - won everything in sight between 1977 and 1980 but were a mid-table side once again by the mid-1980s, had a revival at the end of the 1980s but went from winning two consecutive League Cups in 1989 and 1990 to relegation in 1993. Aston Villa had a great period of success between 1972 and 1982 but were relegated in 1987. English football history is a story of constant rise and fall - that's why our pyramid system was the best.

The Premier League changed all that.

Look at what's happened to Chelsea, Arsenal, United, and Liverpool since 1992. They've all had dry spells and "banter eras" that were written about at the time as though they were catastrophes, but the lowest any of them have ever finished in the Premier League era is 10th (Chelsea in 2016). The lowest that any of Arsenal, United, and Liverpool have finished since 1992 is 8th - all of them have always finished between 1st-8th since the formation of the Premier League.

Since their last Premier League title in 2004, Arsenal have still won 5x FA Cups and 6x Comm Shields, have reached 3x League Cup finals and 1x Europa League final, and have been runners-up in the Premier League three times. Since their last title in 2013, United have won 2x FA Cups, 2x League Cups, 2x Comm Shields, 1x Europa League, and have been Premier League runners up twice. Hardly anything to shake a stick at.

And in the 30 years Liverpool went without a Premier League title, they still won 4x FA Cups, 6x League Cups, 1x UEFA Cup, 2x European Cups, 3x Super Cups/Club World Cups, 1x Comm Shield, were FA Cup runners-up twice, League Cup runners-up twice, European Cup runners-up three times, and Europa League runners-up once. So many legends and happy times have passed through the doors at the Emirates, Old Trafford, and Anfield in "bad times".

You can look across the continent as well, at Barcelona, AC Milan and Inter Milan, Juventus, Atletico Madrid, etc. European superpowers who dominated the footballing landscape 2000s and 2010s (or just the 2010s in Atleti's case). All have been hit with lean periods and financial scandals, etc. but they were all just too big to be flushed away or overtaken by the teams below them. And now they're all back at the very top table again.

I mean, fuck, look at City again. Yes, we were mediocre for a generation and sank all the way to the third tier. But, because we were Manchester City, one of biggest clubs in England, we were able to afford the players and staff who carried us all the way back to the top flight and kept us there within three years. It even gets said on Sky Sports after the 5-2 win at Stoke: "Twice league champions, FA Cup winners four times, League Cup winners twice, European Cup Winners Cup winners... are going down into Division Two."

It was a massive, massive shock, even in 1998, that a club our size could fall so far - but within two years we were back in the top flight and within 10 years we were a solid mid-table PL team again. Since the takeover, what we are now is so much bigger, run so much better, and so much more powerful that the "bad times" won't come for another generation, maybe longer. We'll definitely fall from the very, very top one day soon, but it'll never be that far.

The only team in recent years who've done an equivalent of a 60s, 70s-style rise and fall is Leicester. Premier League winners in 2016 and FA Cup winners in 2021, relegated in 2023. But even they only spent one year slapping second tier teams silly before getting right back into the big time. And the only team to really collapse from winners to (virtual) nobodies in a generation is Leeds, and that was enforced by serious financial mismanagement - and maybe Wigan or Portsmouth at a push, but again, serious financial negligence caused that.

If I was going to predict how things will look over the next decade (providing the 130 charges aren't proved), I think once Pep goes in 2027 there will be a downturn. But I think that downturn is going to look a lot better viewed as part of the bigger picture because what we've been building over the last 15 years. If all we have to show for ourselves between 2027 and 2037 is finishing 2nd-8th and winning the odd cup, what's the harm in that?

And see below.

I applaud the fact that you've laid it out in black and white, irrefutably. It's a long post, but a necessary one. I've been thinking about it for a long time.
In the short term, what's happening at City is very, very bad and should be taken seriously. In the medium term, it's not very good, because I am now starting to think we will not get a CL place (we've seen that with Liverpool, Chelsea and United, the latter are not getting a CL place this season either), and that's important. Long term, you're absolutely right — we're going nowhere. We're simply not going away, now. Even if we were punished by being relegated down a division (which isn't going to happen), we'd be back very rapidly.
It's depressing in a way. It's almost like an analogue, in the sporting field, of global corporate capitalism. The big corporations simply cannot fail. Only war, or major geopolitical shifts could change that. We'll be there or thereabouts ten years from now; so will Chelsea; so will Liverpool; so will Arsenal; and so will United. There is no reason or possibility that it won't be Real and Barcelona in Spain; no reason or possibility that it won't be Bayern, with maybe Dortmund as outsider competition; Italy seems, on the face of it, a little more volatile. I think, because the finances are less solid across the board.
The status quo of clubs in all these countries will not shift. Not significantly. You'll occasionally have your Leicesters, the recent equivalent of Ipswich, Burnley, Wolves way back in the sixties, and Preston North End and Bolton even further back, beyond living memory. A one-season phenomenon, maybe two, to make people dream.
Everyone in the country who isn't a City fan will cackle and laugh about what's happening now. I'm o.k. with that. Not just the Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea fans, whose clubs have been blocked out by City for seven years, with the exception of one season. Everyone. Really, it's o.k.
Football is the global sport, it is now “consumed” by millions, literally, and it generates unbelievable amounts of income. I still enjoy it, but it has changed hugely from the early days in the sixties when I first got into it. And City have changed with that.

 

[Bluemoon115]

Today was always going to be a really bad day for performance and we may have snuck a result if we were lucky. This is essentially the same starting 11 that has been so poor recently so why did we expect a sudden improvement, not going to happen.

However we’re missing Akanji, Stones, Ake, Kovacic and have other players who are clearly struggling such as Kev, Docu and Phil. There isn’t a team in the league that would struggle with this happening but it will not last

But the struggle would be less if we had, say a second striker, ONE left back, the backup to Rodri we've all known we've needed for years.

We've sleepwalked into a situation where our first team squad was already depleted, and now injuries have decimated that.

All management has to take responsibility for that, from Pep to Khaldoon.

And no, I'm not demanding heads on spikes. But no pointing fingers and feeling sorry for themselves. They need to accept the fuck up, short term fix in Jan, long term fix in the summer. And come out and show some fight.

 

[pavelsrnicek]

The rot will continue until we get a defence back, if we have Akanji back then we have more options. Stones back for a few matches? Great. Ideally Ake as well.

At the moment Walker, Nunes, Gvardiol and Lewis are struggling. Gundogan can’t play as a 6, Kovacic is a little better but January can’t come soon enough to bring in a new defensive midfielder.

 

[BolinCell]

Today was always going to be a really bad day for performance and we may have snuck a result if we were lucky. This is essentially the same starting 11 that has been so poor recently so why did we expect a sudden improvement, not going to happen.

However we’re missing Akanji, Stones, Ake, Kovacic and have other players who are clearly struggling such as Kev, Docu and Phil. There isn’t a team in the league that would struggle with this happening but it will not last

you say it won't last. Obviously it won't last but why have we bought such shite players of late. Nunes doing that is unforgivable for a pro. And how did Nunes ever come onto our radar?. You could see he was a one trick pony at Wolves.

 

[chiswick blue]

you say it won't last. Obviously it won't last but why have we bought such shite players of late. Nunes doing that is unforgivable for a pro. And how did Nunes ever come onto our radar?. You could see he was a one trick pony at Wolves.

Difficult to say but maybe he was bought as a squad player and certainly I think Paqueta was first choice. We made a mistake as we did in Phillips, it happens.

With our current DOF, CEO and chairman we are willing to go very big when required and as I said in another thread we are still the biggest dog around. I do not doubt the ability of our management team to take swift and decisive action in the market when required. We are one of the biggest clubs in the world, people including our own fans are forgetting this

 

[East Level 2]

If villa beat us I will still be Blue.
If we get relegated I will still be Blue
If the 115 charges stick I will still be Blue
If SM goes I will still be blue
If we end up up in the Northern Premier League I will still be Blue
And I know I will never stand alone because that’s what it means to be a Blue

Nice sentiment but totally unnecessary as I doubt anybody is thinking of giving up on the team just because of a poor run of results.
We all want the best for City whether that's with or without Pep, with or without KDB, Gundo and Walker, with or without Doku, Grealish and Nunes. Some want to give their opinions as to the best way forward which may upset others, but one win in eleven games is the perfect opportunity to suggest alternative ways to get City back to the top.
I'll still be a blue tomorrow. Do I get a gold star?

 

[chiswick blue]

But the struggle would be less if we had, say a second striker, ONE left back, the backup to Rodri we've all known we've needed for years.

We've sleepwalked into a situation where our first team squad was already depleted, and now injuries have decimated that.

All management has to take responsibility for that, from Pep to Khaldoon.

And no, I'm not demanding heads on spikes. But no pointing fingers and feeling sorry for themselves. They need to accept the fuck up, short term fix in Jan, long term fix in the summer. And come out and show some fight.

Need to look forward now and correct the mistakes. Have no doubt that our team who are the best around will not have learnt. Can we say it’ll all be perfect, no, however I can see a more ruthless approach being taken to recruitment

 

[BolinCell]

Difficult to say but maybe he was bought as a squad player and certainly I think Paqueta was first choice. We made a mistake as we did in Phillips, it happens.

With our current DOF, CEO and chairman we are willing to go very big when required and as I said in another thread we are still the biggest dog around. I do not doubt the ability of our management team to take swift and decisive action in the market when required. We are one of the biggest clubs in the world, people including our own fans are forgetting this

We went big for Grealish and he's on the bench these days. I think that move spooked the recruitment team. Lets face it we should be in for the likes of Mbappe even when we have no chance. In for Salah just to make Liverpool give him a contract. Getting up teams noses just because we can. Our recruitment and off the field guys have not been up to scratch of late and have taken their eye off the ball. And Pep needs telling things like you can't go into the season with just 1 striker, we know your a genius but one striker even god can't do that.

 

[beermusic]

Jacks price tag was never his fault and we were backed into a corner at that point with the market, support every blue but no one can realistically say he is a world class player in the sense of a kev, foden, both Silvas, toure etc. he has at times had a big contribution as a supporting player and in the dressing room but his confidence must be shot to bits by now and he’s 29. We now relying on players nearing or over 30 to defend and create movement - bern kev and gundo are way past their best now, walker gets slower every game and we’re calling for stones to come back who’s 30 also. Even Ake is 29. This is a team that suddenly seems too old and then a massive season-long loss in Rodri that seems to have collapsed all momentum and self-belief. The young bloods are full of potential but we’re not going to get anywhere near without some seriously clever recruitment in Jan.

 

[Roachy]

But the struggle would be less if we had, say a second striker, ONE left back, the backup to Rodri we've all known we've needed for years.

We've sleepwalked into a situation where our first team squad was already depleted, and now injuries have decimated that.

All management has to take responsibility for that, from Pep to Khaldoon.

And no, I'm not demanding heads on spikes. But no pointing fingers and feeling sorry for themselves. They need to accept the fuck up, short term fix in Jan, long term fix in the summer. And come out and show some fight.

It would be interesting to know we've took this approach. I can't recall the squad size situation in the summer but maybe the current contracted players weren't going anywhere and we didn't have room for extra numbers. If that's not the case and there was room it's a bit baffling. The real concerning matter is the collective downturn in virtually every player at the moment. It's becoming a theme with some of the excuses wearing a bit thin.

 

[HypnoticBlue]

It would be interesting to know we've took this approach. I can't recall the squad size situation in the summer but maybe the current contracted players weren't going anywhere and we didn't have room for extra numbers. If that's not the case and there was room it's a bit baffling. The real concerning matter is the collective downturn in virtually every player at the moment. It's becoming a theme with some of the excuses wearing a bit thin.

The tactics are creating the downturn I think.

 

[Roachy]

The tactics are creating the downturn I think.

Well if that's the case then it's on Pep. We seem to have a number of reasons for the slide at the ready. Some are obvious, injuries, lack of form etc. There's just no spark or creativity at the moment. Coupled with this horror show, clown like defending at times it's no wonder we've seen these results.

 

[give it to gordon]

There was rumours that Eddy, Walker and KDB were of last summer.
The only player of recent times who was rumoured to be of every summer was Silva. But Silva has always given 100%.

Perhaps these 3 knew inside knew that they were done, knackered and need to step down a level. Did someone at the club make the wrong call and talked them into staying.

I'm not calling these players out they have been fantastic players for the club. Just a thought that the players knew their time was up, which happens to all players. The players know their minds and bodies better than anyone.

 

[Goaters]

We as fans have been truly spoilt over the last decade, I’m sure every man and his dog would agree.

Pep is clearly one of us, he’s bought into the project, defended us against the press and made us the envy of every other fan - hence the bitterness in the press.

I can completely accept this season as a write off (as long as top 4 is achieved).

If Pep wants to be overly loyal to players who’ve achieved so much with us - then so be it. If Pep is being very stubborn to his footballing philosophy that won us 4 titles on the bounce - go for it mate.

Guardiola isn’t an idiot, he’s the greatest tactical mind the games every seen. We’ve seen the media reports how stressed he’s getting, he’s looking like a broken man and will have huge weight of expectation on his shoulders so I do feel for him.

My issue with this run and potentially season is I’d have marked this as a ‘transition’ season. Would it really have harmed our chances further to see what nico or wright could produce holding as dm with energy? Would mcatee instead of nunes on the wing made us less fluid? Simpson Pusey at the back could have slotted in as a rb or cb and made us more solid than a lewis or nunes again.

My gripe is purely I’d have liked to have seen this as a chance to blood the unknown players, the players that have been elite throughout the youth teams, star players in the junior England setup. I just can’t fathom how we haven’t utilised this slightly more - especially when you see palmer, Lavia and Delap flying atm.

Now saying that, Lewis is a young lad and seems to be near universally ridiculed atm so maybe my youth theory is a naive assessment.

Anyway, Pep you’ve given me the best years of my life foootball wise. For his sake rather than us spoilt fans I want him to turn this round and show the world he’s still the best manager we’ve ever seen.

 

[Blu3m00n91]

No one can say that we haven’t supported the club or the players during this run. Our actual captain just completely avoids questions, letting other people speak for him. The other players talk a big game off the pitch and show fuck all on it. There is factors as to why we’re on a bad run but it’s not bad enough to excuse these type of performances. Pep said vs Southampton ‘work harder, Be Humble, Be ambitious, other wise academy is ready’. Time to stick to your words now pep

 

[rickmcfc]

No one can say that we haven’t supported the club or the players during this run. Our actual captain just completely avoids questions, letting other people speak for him. The other players talk a big game off the pitch and show fuck all on it. There is factors as to why we’re on a bad run but it’s not bad enough to excuse these type of performances. Pep said vs Southampton ‘work harder, Be Humble, Be ambitious, other wise academy is ready’. Time to stick to your words now pep

Totally agree. Im not suggesting throw 11 youngsters out, but those guys must be sat there seeing this thinking “if I don’t get a chance now then I never will”

Bring in some kids asap

 

[jim tolmies perm]

Football mirrors life. So many things can be ephemeral, one minute you have it ,the next it's gone, whether it be something or somebody
Nothing stands still. The club and we as fans must understand stand this so it's so important to cherish the moment and be aware if you take your eye off the prize unpleasant surprises may await you. Try to stay humble above all.

 

[Coatigan]

The last four years, people have talked about teams bottling it, pressure and what it does to them, opposition fans being fickle and buckling etc etc.

'Mon then, now lets see that bravado, lets see what we are made of and how we cope!

That's not happy clapping, I am not defending the performances or choices, I am fucking gutted to see it. But I'll take the pain, and I'll take it into the next game. And the one after that.

Don't want Pep sacked, don't want him to walk, and don't think either will happen. At this point it doesn't matter whether we lose 12, 14 or 16 games in a bad run, and there is no magic breaking point where it all needs to go to shit.

I back this manager and this group, and if it all keeps going wrong, so be it. I want to see it change, but I want to see it change together.

 

[Roachy]

There was rumours that Eddy, Walker and KDB were of last summer.
The only player of recent times who was rumoured to be of every summer was Silva. But Silva has always given 100%.

Perhaps these 3 knew inside knew that they were done, knackered and need to step down a level. Did someone at the club make the wrong call and talked them into staying.

I'm not calling these players out they have been fantastic players for the club. Just a thought that the players knew their time was up, which happens to all players. The players know their minds and bodies better than anyone.

If, as so many experts here keep saying, the players are mentally and physically shot then there would 100% been signs in the summer. This collapse is too dramatic for there not too have been. It has to be halted though and that's why people get paid the big bucks.