Ilkay Gundogan - 2018/19 performances

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The situation with gundogan is, in my opinion really straightforward.

Does he get in to our best starting 11? Absolutely not. Is he a fantastic squad option yes he is. That’s all there is to it. Not everyone in our squad can be a world beater.

If Gundogan is our biggest gripe, I can live with that quite happily
 
mccity said:
You know what I find it interesting there's another debate on Gundogan vs Fernandinho brewing.
Here's some info on Bernardo Silva's 1st half performance in CM btw:

He had a 67% pass success rate. 0 successful dribbles. 0 defensive actions, 0 shots, 1 time dispossessed and 16 touches total.

Is it not possible that maybe the questionable first half performances by our two natural central midfielders were compromised by the weak performance of player with minimal experience in the role? I respect that he shouldn't be criticised for playing in such an unfamiliar position less than perfectly, but it's a performance that shouldn't be ignored when especially it's concerning the assessment of other players. Considering Gundogan's the guy next to him, isn't it reasonable to think his performance might have been dragged down more than most because of this?


With respect to Fernandinho, he showed just as much positional naivety as Gundogan. And I don't think Gundogan showed much positional naivety. Both their issues (moreso Gundogan) stemmed from mistakes with the ball at their feet. Their positional games are as good as any midfielder outside of the elite.
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I thought the three of them played well below their capabilities and had expected them to dominate Arsenal in midfield. I thought Bernardo did play better in the second half, noticeably brighter when Kev came on. They were not the only ones rusty though. Eddies distribution in the last ten minutes was horrendous. Mandy gave the ball away far too much, Mahrez is nowhere near a Pep player yet. Kun will no doubt have his legs slapped for not squaring to KDB when he missed that chance. We will improve over the next few weeks.
 
Hard to judge him on his first full match. Looked like he wasn't fully fit, but the game really open. It think he looked poor because of a lot of factors.

First off having Mendy instead of Delph. When Delph inverts he's provides more cover in the midfield and also helps with build up play. Mendy was poor at keeping the ball and gave it away a few times which didn't help. Playing out from the back Gundogan had to be a double pivot with Dinho dropping deep. Then when we got in the final 3rd he was also in the box. He was also required to press and with Arsenal pressing as well it can be very taxing going up and down the pitch. These conditions with the first match of the season it's understandable him not doing well in both possession and defending. Players will get knackered. Kev was totally knackered against Liverpool for example.

People will say he won't be able to play as the #6, but in some ways it might be easier for him. You don't have to help finish plays off in the box which would mean less running up and down the pitch. Also your forward players should help press from the front as well so you're keeping things in front of you and know what your role is more or less.
 
Dax777 said:
I like the way you are approaching this. I just point out clear inconsistencies in reasoning or faulry claims.

It's fine to conclude Gundogan was poor (he had lots of poor moments), but it's hypocritical to claim. Fern who was as poor ( worse in my opinion) was 'Great' ( as some have - coz he covered an Aubamayeng run once!) And in the same breathe argue how Gundogan was poor.

The other argument is to claim Gundogan 'caused' or was 'the reason' for Fern's poor play.

The surest red flag that some player is a scapegoat is when you see him being blamed for someone else playing poorly.

That is Ipso facto Scapegoating... And there is enough of that being served at Gundog's restaurant :)
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So Fernandinho, straight back from the World Cup, ageing & asking to be replaced, was poor because his passing wasn't quite as good as Gundogan's presumably ?

Or he didn't get his toe to the ball whilst lying on his back, like Gundogan did on a couple of occasions, to register on the computer.

Because he sure as fuck wasn't poor getting his body between Arsenal & our goal covering the wide open spaces behind Gundo, wheezing back, or Mendy, running forward leaving the ball behind,

But of course it just goes without saying, that he does that & after all, who gives a fuck, if he isn't there somebody will do it, it just happens.
 
Neville Kneville said:
So Fernandinho, straight back from the World Cup, ageing & asking to be replaced, was poor because his passing wasn't quite as good as Gundogan's presumably ?

Or he didn't get his toe to the ball whilst lying on his back, like Gundogan did on a couple of occasions, to register on the computer.

Because he sure as fuck wasn't poor getting his body between Arsenal & our goal covering the wide open spaces behind Gundo, wheezing back, or Mendy, running forward leaving the ball behind,

But of course it just goes without saying, that he does that & after all, who gives a fuck, if he isn't there somebody will do it, it just happens.
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He was poor because he was poor. This is not a relative claim.

You somehow concluded he had a 'great game' and Gundogan had a terrible game. I wondered how you came to such an irrational conclusion about 2 players whose perdomances were quite similar. In my book, both unimpressive.

But I can see now that you are grading on a curve. Older players who went to the world cup and need replacement at their position apparently get bonus points for that.

Sorry, I grade straight merit :)
 
Your agenda sticks out like dogs bollocks, Dax.

Clear for everyone to see.
 
Having rewatched the game today and not being under the influence of alcohol I thought his performance was okay. I'm just confused as to why he's not given the same allowances others are considering he's has minimal game time too?

The way it can be summed up best is if a German international is our biggest problem, then frankly our problems are good problems to have.
 
One thing that i do like about Gundogan though, is his ability to arrive into the box at the right time. I do wish however, that he would press with the same tenacity as others in the team.
 
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