Ilkay Gundogan - 2018/19 performances

[Dax777]

I don't agree with the way I feel Gundogan is a bit of an easy target like you do, but it's maybe best to try and figure out why. I want to understand the 'haters' (if that's the term) more than I want to be scathing of them (I will admit I have been scathing myself occasionally).
So I'd guess it's that they believe the other players's sloppiness is a blip, whereas this Gundogan performance represents a continuing problem. If you read through a lot of the posts criticising him, there's a decent number of them with a real tinge of frustration going on.


Also, there's always some people that have just had a tough day and need to moan and for a moment to be understood. Easier to call out the player everyone's already calling out than someone who everyone is praising.

I like the way you are approaching this. I just point out clear inconsistencies in reasoning or faulry claims.

It's fine to conclude Gundogan was poor (he had lots of poor moments), but it's hypocritical to claim. Fern who was as poor ( worse in my opinion) was 'Great' ( as some have - coz he covered an Aubamayeng run once!) And in the same breathe argue how Gundogan was poor.

The other argument is to claim Gundogan 'caused' or was 'the reason' for Fern's poor play.

The surest red flag that some player is a scapegoat is when you see him being blamed for someone else playing poorly.

That is Ipso facto Scapegoating... And there is enough of that being served at Gundog's restaurant :)

 

[lasereyes]

I like the way you are approaching this. I just point out clear inconsistencies in reasoning or faulry claims.

It's fine to conclude Gundogan was poor (he had lots of poor moments), but it's hypocritical to claim. Fern who was as poor ( worse in my opinion) was 'Great' ( as some have - coz he covered an Aubamayeng run once!) And in the same breathe argue how Gundogan was poor.

The other argument is to claim Gundogan 'caused' or was 'the reason' for Fern's poor play.

The surest red flag that some player is a scapegoat is when you see him being blamed for someone else playing poorly.

That is Ipso facto Scapegoating... And there is enough of that being served at Gundog's restaurant :)

Fernandinho was poor, but in fairness has had no pre-season. As for Gundogan, as a couple of other people said, I think as the season goes on, you may see Foden rise in the pecking order above him.

 

[mccity]

You know what I find it interesting there's another debate on Gundogan vs Fernandinho brewing.
Here's some info on Bernardo Silva's 1st half performance in CM btw:

He had a 67% pass success rate. 0 successful dribbles. 0 defensive actions, 0 shots, 1 time dispossessed and 16 touches total.

Is it not possible that maybe the questionable first half performances by our two natural central midfielders were compromised by the weak performance of player with minimal experience in the role? I respect that he shouldn't be criticised for playing in such an unfamiliar position less than perfectly, but it's a performance that shouldn't be ignored when especially it's concerning the assessment of other players. Considering Gundogan's the guy next to him, isn't it reasonable to think his performance might have been dragged down more than most because of this?


With respect to Fernandinho, he showed just as much positional naivety as Gundogan. And I don't think Gundogan showed much positional naivety. Both their issues (moreso Gundogan) stemmed from mistakes with the ball at their feet. Their positional games are as good as any midfielder outside of the elite.

 

[Dax777]

You know what I find it interesting there's another debate on Gundogan vs Fernandinho brewing.
Here's some info on Bernardo Silva's 1st half performance in CM btw:

He had a 67% pass success rate. 0 successful dribbles. 0 defensive actions, 0 shots, 1 time dispossessed and 16 touches total.

Is it not possible that maybe the questionable first half performances by our two natural central midfielders were compromised by the weak performance of player with minimal experience in the role? I respect that he shouldn't be criticised for playing in such an unfamiliar position less than perfectly, but it's a performance that shouldn't be ignored when especially it's concerning the assessment of other players. Considering Gundogan's the guy next to him, isn't it reasonable to think his performance might have been dragged down more than most because of this?


With respect to Fernandinho, he showed just as much positional naivety as Gundogan. And I don't think Gundogan showed much positional naivety. Both their issues (moreso Gundogan) stemmed from mistakes with the ball at their feet. Their positional games are as good as any midfielder outside of the elite.

Wow! It's like reading my mind with better diction :)

 

[mccity]

I like the way you are approaching this. I just point out clear inconsistencies in reasoning or faulry claims.

It's fine to conclude Gundogan was poor (he had lots of poor moments), but it's hypocritical to claim. Fern who was as poor ( worse in my opinion) was 'Great' ( as some have - coz he covered an Aubamayeng run once!) And in the same breathe argue how Gundogan was poor.

The other argument is to claim Gundogan 'caused' or was 'the reason' for Fern's poor play.

The surest red flag that some player is a scapegoat is when you see him being blamed for someone else playing poorly.

That is Ipso facto Scapegoating... And there is enough of that being served at Gundog's restaurant :)

You're spot on largely but know how it is. People who fit the bill of any part of your post after you start discussing hypocrisy have made their minds up. I'm sure if Gundogan proves them wrong they'll be the first to admit that they always believed in him. Take consolation in that there are still a decent number of posters who can criticise the guy fairly. :)

Wow! It's like reading my mind with better diction :)

Get a room you two ;)

 

[Franknorgrovesnephew]

it was the first game of the season for fuck sake.

 

[bluemonkey71]

I didn’t think he played that badly. Mendy gave the ball away more.

 

[City_Sean]

I thought he was okay for the majority. He actually played some really good through balls but then then gave some sloppy passes away. He wasn't the only one though, and I'm certain it's due to a lack of games.

 

[01cravend]

Apart from a couple of poor balls in the final 3rd i thought he played well.

 

[Tugay One Cup]

Really good player and I thought had a decent game. There were a few far more established players who had far worse performances but let's need read into that too much given that it's literally the first game of the season.

Seems to have a target on his back for whatever reason but I couldn't ask for a better option in the squad. I feel like he'd excel pushed up near the striker but Bernardo is potentially our best player and looking the better option there.