This would keep the haters quiet for a few weeks. But I promise you in about a month, the very same sentiment of how we are worse Everytime he plays will resurface.Hmm....Is it a coincidence? Is it even true?
Gundogan started 29 games last season. P29 W21 D2 L6. Lets look at the losses -
Shakhtar 2-1 - Are we going to blame Gundogan for that? He was playing with kids and reserves, it was a dead rubber Pep sent out a B team for.
Basel 2-1 - Again...We were 4-0 up in the tie (thanks to 2 goals from Gundogan) and we played a B team with Bravo, Yaya, Zinchenko, Tosin and Brahim all playing.
Liverpool 3-0
Liverpool 4-3
United 3-2
Wigan 1-0.
The serious games which affected the season. Gundogan started 2 Liverpool defeats, but then again we lost when he didn't start as well. Is he solely to blame? No. Liverpool are the team best suited to us and beat us with or without Gundogan. He was particularly bad in the 3-0 defeat but he was also playing as some hybrid RW/Attacking midfield experiment we've not seen before or since.
United - Gundogan to blame? Well he scored, and he wasn't the reason we conceded, but he did miss an easy goal which would have sealed it, so he's probably as much to blame as Sterling and the others who missed easy goals.
Wigan - Delph got sent off, the referee denied us an obvious red card. He's not to blame.
So if you exclude the "B team" dead rubber games he played because they're obviously not relevant, we won 21 with Gundogan and lost 4, three of which happened to be against the toughest opposition of the season, and 1 in a game where we were sent down to 10 men and got fucked by the referee.
He was in our biggest losses of the season, but then again KDB, Fernandinho, David Silva also played in all of those as well.
So basically our results aren't poorer with him in the side. It's not a coincidence because it's just not true.
Good post.Hmm....Is it a coincidence? Is it even true?
Gundogan started 29 games last season. P29 W21 D2 L6. Lets look at the losses -
Shakhtar 2-1 - Are we going to blame Gundogan for that? He was playing with kids and reserves, it was a dead rubber Pep sent out a B team for.
Basel 2-1 - Again...We were 4-0 up in the tie (thanks to 2 goals from Gundogan) and we played a B team with Bravo, Yaya, Zinchenko, Tosin and Brahim all playing.
Liverpool 3-0
Liverpool 4-3
United 3-2
Wigan 1-0.
The serious games which affected the season. Gundogan started 2 Liverpool defeats, but then again we lost when he didn't start as well. Is he solely to blame? No. Liverpool are the team best suited to us and beat us with or without Gundogan. He was particularly bad in the 3-0 defeat but he was also playing as some hybrid RW/Attacking midfield experiment we've not seen before or since.
United - Gundogan to blame? Well he scored, and he wasn't the reason we conceded, but he did miss an easy goal which would have sealed it, so he's probably as much to blame as Sterling and the others who missed easy goals.
Wigan - Delph got sent off, the referee denied us an obvious red card. He's not to blame.
So if you exclude the "B team" dead rubber games he played because they're obviously not relevant, we won 21 with Gundogan and lost 4, three of which happened to be against the toughest opposition of the season, and 1 in a game where we were sent down to 10 men and got fucked by the referee.
He was in our biggest losses of the season, but then again KDB, Fernandinho, David Silva also played in all of those as well.
So basically our results aren't poorer with him in the side. It's not a coincidence because it's just not true.
You'd do well to read the big post a couple above yours for your first sentence. And with all due respect whilst Fernandinho has been a more important player for us, including last season, he hasn't the same attacking quality of Gundogan.Gundo is too soft to play as a DM in big games. He would do OK as a DM against lesser oppositions that sit deep and don't put pressure on him. Dinho got the same attacking skill-set as Gundo (short passes, crossfield passes, chipping over the top, through balls, etc., he can shoot from distance, both feet, good on the ball, can dribble, etc etc.) but he's a lot more nasty in a good way when it comes to regaining the ball high-up the pitch and just applying pressure to opposition in general. Gundo isn't the most energetic and he's not the one who would jump into tackles like Dinho and win vital interceptions.
Basically what I'm saying is that Gundo is too nice of a footballer to play as a DM against top top opposition. IMO, if Dinho is injured, Delph is a better option to play as a DM in big games because even though his attacking skill-set isn't as good as Gundogan's but he's got that positive nastiness in him like Dinho.
Sterling, it has to be. Maybe Jesus if things don't go to well?This would keep the haters quiet for a few weeks. But I promise you in about a month, the very same sentiment of how we are worse Everytime he plays will resurface.
BBu soon enough, he'll get a run of games where he'd score 6 in 7 games and that will finally do it.
Unfortunately by then there'd be a new scapegoat to dog. I can already see who that is. The scapegoaters have started circling him :)
Nailed it. This is what I see and very articulately described.Tbh, the evidence of when he weakens us, so far, is by watching his actual performance, irrespective of result, & it often isn't particularly good. It's sometimes 'ok', sometimes good, sometimes quite poor.
Even in his rated 'good' games, he isn't usually, particularly that good.
Someone posted a vid on here of his every touch, playing deep, v Chelsea, which is 'ok'. But not more than that. It isn't a 'oh this guy is what we need' kind of video, it's just 'ok'. We played very well as a team & got by, in deep midfield, with Gundogan playing there.
He isn't being pressed, plays a few decent passes, plays a few 'meh' passes when he could have perhaps done better & a few bad ones. When you add to that, he isn't great defensively & needs covering, & you can see why Pep said a couple of days ago, that he wasn't signed to play that role, he wants him further up.
Now what Pep did say, is how he rates Gundogan around the penalty area & he has an eye for stuff there & mentioned Paul Scholes.
The player we signed, was a front foot, quick thinking, pressing player who created stuff & was good at nicking the ball off opponents & causing problems. Those kind of moments, are still the best ones from Gundogan last season, not as a fairly predictable, non physical def mid, who managed to get by without being caught out too much.
That's the player we wanted when we signed him & that player, at Dortmund, looked to be on the same high level, as our other mids.
Imo, that's the player Pep wants from Gundogan & his fitness, this season, will decide whether he can become a viable alternative in that role, or just a utility player to fill holes.
Gundogan thrives as part of a dual pivot - his partner attacks and he provides additional cover. In a pivot, when not pressured, he can pick a pass. He can also go forward and has a very good shot on goal.Tbh, the evidence of when he weakens us, so far, is by watching his actual performance, irrespective of result, & it often isn't particularly good. It's sometimes 'ok', sometimes good, sometimes quite poor.
Even in his rated 'good' games, he isn't usually, particularly that good.
Someone posted a vid on here of his every touch, playing deep, v Chelsea, which is 'ok'. But not more than that. It isn't a 'oh this guy is what we need' kind of video, it's just 'ok'. We played very well as a team & got by, in deep midfield, with Gundogan playing there.
He isn't being pressed, plays a few decent passes, plays a few 'meh' passes when he could have perhaps done better & a few bad ones. When you add to that, he isn't great defensively & needs covering, & you can see why Pep said a couple of days ago, that he wasn't signed to play that role, he wants him further up.
Now what Pep did say, is how he rates Gundogan around the penalty area & he has an eye for stuff there & mentioned Paul Scholes.
The player we signed, was a front foot, quick thinking, pressing player who created stuff & was good at nicking the ball off opponents & causing problems. Those kind of moments, are still the best ones from Gundogan last season, not as a fairly predictable, non physical def mid, who managed to get by without being caught out too much.
That's the player we wanted when we signed him & that player, at Dortmund, looked to be on the same high level, as our other mids.
Imo, that's the player Pep wants from Gundogan & his fitness, this season, will decide whether he can become a viable alternative in that role, or just a utility player to fill holes.