Ireland

[Didsbury Dave]

Simple question....

"Is it not possible to be a flair player and work hard?"

Of course it is.

but just because someone's going through a run of poor form and is short of confidence, doesn't mean they're not putting the effort in.

It's too simplistic.

And I'll stand toe to toe with anyone who thinks Ireland's not trying, which is what this thread's turned into.

 

[The Fat el Hombre]

TMQ, not trying to jump on here but not sure I understand. Are you really saying that a player should not fight to get the ball back when lost? Obviously they should value possession but I can't see how an effort made to win the ball back after a mistake is a bad tactical decision (getting pinned back).

No. All I'm saying is that a team of hard working, honest journeymen will always be beaten by players like Anelka who is labelled as lazy.

The key is to find a balance. I accept that we need some hard working grafters but by the same token we also need some players who can dazzle and entertain.

I want balance.

Not one or the other.

What's that got to do with Stevie Ireland?

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

No. All I'm saying is that a team of hard working, honest journeymen will always be beaten by players like Anelka who is labelled as lazy.

The key is to find a balance. I accept that we need some hard working grafters but by the same token we also need some players who can dazzle and entertain.

I want balance.

Not one or the other.

What's that got to do with Stevie Ireland?

Ireland is now the number 1 target for the anti Robinho brigade. I'm talking more in general than about Ireland specifically although if most on here had their way Ireland would be replaced by a De Jong clone and then they'd whinge because we never pass it forwards and don't excite. They want it all and they want it now and they don't seem to understand that all men have strengths and weaknesses.

 

[FEEDHIMGARY]

Simple question....

"Is it not possible to be a flair player and work hard?"

Of course it is.

but just because someone's going through a run of poor form and is short of confidence, doesn't mean they're not putting the effort in.

It's too simplistic.

And I'll stand toe to toe with anyone who thinks Ireland's not trying, which is what this thread's turned into.

i hope you're right DD.. as im of the same opinion as you that on last years form he would walk into pretty much any team in europe.

But to me he didnt look like he was 100% for the cause on sunday... maybe im being paranoid... but to me something aint right.

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

Simple question....

"Is it not possible to be a flair player and work hard?"

Of course it is.

but just because someone's going through a run of poor form and is short of confidence, doesn't mean they're not putting the effort in.

It's too simplistic.

And I'll stand toe to toe with anyone who thinks Ireland's not trying, which is what this thread's turned into.

100% agree.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

will always be beaten by players like Anelka who is labelled as lazy.

It's funny you should mention him. His name comes through my mind whenever I hear a player called "lazy".

There's a bloke sits right next to us. He knows nothing about the game. He's totally negative and paranoid and talks shit, basically. He wants to make subs which make no tactical sense. He says "Get Lescott Off" and you say "and replace him with who?" and he says "Anyone. Santa Cruz". He's a classic ignorant football fan.

He fucking hated Anelka. "He's lazy" and "He wears gloves" were all he could say.

Even now he won't say a good word about him.

It just sums up ignarant football support for me. Anelka conserves his energy for that burst. If he chased around like Tevez he wouldn't get away from defenders in that 1 on 1 he gets most games. Pace is his biggest asset. But this bloke is blind to that. He would have had Dickov in the side ahead of him.

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

will always be beaten by players like Anelka who is labelled as lazy.

It's funny you should mention him. His name comes through my mind whenever I hear a player called "lazy".

There's a bloke sits right next to us. He knows nothing about the game. He's totally negative and paranoid and talks shit, basically. He wants to make subs which make no tactical sense. He says "Get Lescott Off" and you say "and replace him with who?" and he says "Anyone. Santa Cruz". He's a classic ignorant football fan.

He fucking hated Anelka. "He's lazy" and "He wears gloves" were all he could say.

Even now he won't say a good word about him.

It just sums up ignarant football support for me. Anelka conserves his energy for that burst. If he chased around like Tevez he wouldn't get away from defenders in that 1 on 1 he gets most games. Pace is his biggest asset. But this bloke is blind to that. He would have had Dickov in the side ahead of him.

I know the type Dave.

I always liked Anelka. He was there to score and he scored. Wasn't too arsed about the fact that he'd never fill Paulo Maldini's boots to be honest as I didn't think it was relevant.

It's a mixture of only listening to tabloid/sky/motd 'experts' and still being stuck in an under 8's mentality.

In fact if the posters on here love hard working 'honest' football so much why don't they support their local sides instead of wasting their time with a prem team full of nasty foreigners with long names who wear gloves and have weird hair? Obviously gloves, hair and name do play a big part in determining the laziness of a player.

 

[Esteban de la Sexface]

will always be beaten by players like Anelka who is labelled as lazy.

It's funny you should mention him. His name comes through my mind whenever I hear a player called "lazy".

There's a bloke sits right next to us. He knows nothing about the game. He's totally negative and paranoid and talks shit, basically. He wants to make subs which make no tactical sense. He says "Get Lescott Off" and you say "and replace him with who?" and he says "Anyone. Santa Cruz". He's a classic ignorant football fan.

He fucking hated Anelka. "He's lazy" and "He wears gloves" were all he could say.

Even now he won't say a good word about him.

It just sums up ignarant football support for me. Anelka conserves his energy for that burst. If he chased around like Tevez he wouldn't get away from defenders in that 1 on 1 he gets most games. Pace is his biggest asset. But this bloke is blind to that. He would have had Dickov in the side ahead of him.

Anelka is the furthest thing from lazy I have ever seen on any football pitch.

Saw him live in Croke Park for France v Ireland and he was absolutely immense. The amount of running the man did to make himself a yard of space was incredible.

That's what I think the average fan doesn't see. All those flair players that look like they have an extra yard and take their time when they have the ball are after absolutely bursting their bollocks to run 20 yards to be in a yard of space.

Pirlo was a classic example of this when I saw him live. He doesn't move very quickly, but he never stops moving, laterally or up and down. A technical genius that one.

 

[Soulboy]

Of course it is.

but just because someone's going through a run of poor form and is short of confidence, doesn't mean they're not putting the effort in.

It's too simplistic.

And I'll stand toe to toe with anyone who thinks Ireland's not trying, which is what this thread's turned into.

100% agree.

While I also agree that Ireland was doing his best on Sunday (and for all of this season), it seems strange that when literally huindreds of posters were lining up on here to berate Robinho as being lazy, as Elano being lazy, as Anelka being lazy, etc, etc... we never had the level of support for them that has appeared for Steven Ireland... and I am just wondering why?

Is it because he's a "local lad made good", come through the ranks, is a reader of this site and has a number of friends on here, is a genuine talent going through a bad patch... why such support (which I can well understand), but not a similar call to arms when others are targetted for being "lazy"?

I seem to recall posters on here stoutly defending Steven Ireland, yet absolutely slaughtering Elano on the same basis.

If we accept that no footballer goes on to the pitch looking to be shite and "lazy" why the inconsistent approach to how they are dealt with?

Just wondering.

 

[bluebrickroad]

Dunga, the Brazilian team coach, described his teams being made up of "piano carriers" and 2 or 3 "piano players". In other words 8 or 9 "grafters" and 2 or 3 "artistes".