Irish Current Affairs

Just covered the Miami Showband killings. God I remember that - Warrenpoint - Mountbatten - Warrington - Inneskillen and the M62 bombings - what a fucking mess it all was.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Just covered the Miami Showband killings. God I remember that - Warrenpoint - Mountbatten - Warrington - Inneskillen and the M62 bombings - what a fucking mess it all was.
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Saw that last night and found it thought provoking.
I wondered about the timing of the program firstly and then the content and came away unsure what I thought of it to be honest.
It was very good as a reminder of what was endured and what the paramilitaries on both sides tried to destroy.
It did show the army side of things and it did show the futility of what they were being asked to do.
The soldiers on the ground are not politically motivated, they just carry out their duty, but what they were enforcing was basically disrupting ordinary life in local communities.
The closing of border roads isolated farmers from their lands and their markets.
It touched on the fact that the local Unionist landowners supplemented their farming income by joining the defence forces and that they all owned shotguns and had started patrolling the boarder themselves. Some had previously been members of the B-Specials.
It showed the horror of what extremists on both sides stooped to. The Miami Show Band incident was particularly poignant in that it showed the warped strategy and thinking that was going on in the UVF, but the killing of their own community by the IRA, not just targeting of the army, was also quite horrific and the program seemed to want to show just how low they had gone.

Like I said I wasn't sure what I thought of it at first. It was like it was trying in a very short time to show the degradation and the fueling of the septic atmosphere along the boarder. To show it from all sides including an ex-IRA operant who was repulsed by the killing of Patsy? can't remember the surname. A man that they took out of his home and chained him to the wheel of a van and made him drive a bomb in to town while his wife Kathleen was hostage at home. The man saved the lives of many by telling them people to run like hell. He himself was blown up.

I wondered where the program was going but then saw that it was trying to show that there can be reconciliation and there can be hope. The ex IRA woman Ann and Kathleen meet up and there was not the hatred that was expected. A soldier who had his 19 year old mate shot sees the releasing of paramilitary prisoners after the GFA and it angers him. But ultimately he thinks about it and feels it's the right thing to do.

I agree with the sentiments that were put forward but I did think who would it convince that is not already convinced. Would it change any minds? Is the timing of it quite intended as a stark reminder that we could go there again in an instance if things are not given due care, politically?

Good program. Thought provoking.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
Saw that last night and found it thought provoking.
I wondered about the timing of the program firstly and then the content and came away unsure what I thought of it to be honest.
It was very good as a reminder of what was endured and what the paramilitaries on both sides tried to destroy.
It did show the army side of things and it did show the futility of what they were being asked to do.
The soldiers on the ground are not politically motivated, they just carry out their duty, but what they were enforcing was basically disrupting ordinary life in local communities.
The closing of border roads isolated farmers from their lands and their markets.
It touched on the fact that the local Unionist landowners supplemented their farming income by joining the defence forces and that they all owned shotguns and had started patrolling the boarder themselves. Some had previously been members of the B-Specials.
It showed the horror of what extremists on both sides stooped to. The Miami Show Band incident was particularly poignant in that it showed the warped strategy and thinking that was going on in the UVF, but the killing of their own community by the IRA, not just targeting of the army, was also quite horrific and the program seemed to want to show just how low they had gone.

Like I said I wasn't sure what I thought of it at first. It was like it was trying in a very short time to show the degradation and the fueling of the septic atmosphere along the boarder. To show it from all sides including an ex-IRA operant who was repulsed by the killing of Patsy? can't remember the surname. A man that they took out of his home and chained him to the wheel of a van and made him drive a bomb in to town while his wife Kathleen was hostage at home. The man saved the lives of many by telling them people to run like hell. He himself was blown up.

I wondered where the program was going but then saw that it was trying to show that there can be reconciliation and there can be hope. The ex IRA woman Ann and Kathleen meet up and there was not the hatred that was expected. A soldier who had his 19 year old mate shot sees the releasing of paramilitary prisoners after the GFA and it angers him. But ultimately he thinks about it and feels it's the right thing to do.

I agree with the sentiments that were put forward but I did think who would it convince that is not already convinced. Would it change any minds? Is the timing of it quite intended as a stark reminder that we could go there again in an instance if things are not given due care, politically?

Good program. Thought provoking.
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Havent seen it yet...but try and get it on catch-up...i think the timing is very deliberate...not to support one "side" or the other, but just to remind of how bad things were...or could be.

I also think its very important to graphically recount events...its very easy, 30 odd years later to say..."oh [insert paramilitary group] planted a bomb and people died".....but to recall such stories as that of Patsy(?) and how he was chained to a truck.....thats ISIS like methods. However, we still believe in our way forward.
 
Is it possible that Sinn Fein could actually get into government in Ireland after this election?
Mary Lou doing very well in the televised debates.
Do they genuinely want to get into power?
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
Is it possible that Sinn Fein could actually get into government in Ireland after this election?
Mary Lou doing very well in the televised debates.
Do they genuinely want to get into power?
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Why not? With Johnson as PM and the Brexshitters not valuing the constituent parts of the UK could be their best chance to exert leverage to unite the Island of Ireland.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Why not? With Johnson as PM and the Brexshitters not valuing the constituent parts of the UK could be their best chance to exert leverage to unite the Island of Ireland.
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She’s a decent debater.
Coming out of tonight again, looking quite credible and not only handling the opposition leaders well but also the two gimps chairing this carnage. Matt Cooper and Ivan Yates.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
She’s a decent debater.
Coming out of tonight again, looking quite credible and not only handling the opposition leaders well but also the two gimps chairing this carnage. Matt Cooper and Ivan Yates.
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Should Arlene be worried about being thrown under the bus then?
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
She already was, I thought.
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I'd agree - a resurgent Sinn Fein - Boris feed from having to kiss Arlene's arse ( horrible image I may have just planted in your mind...sorry ) and so many English people expressing an opinion that they don't give a fuck about Ulster or Scotland in Arlene's shoes ( size 12's I bet ) I'd be fucking worried that if it would reflect well on Boris in certain demographics he'd give Ulster to Sinn Fein on a silver salver and hang the consequences.
 
bluethrunthru said:
I'd agree - a resurgent Sinn Fein - Boris feed from having to kiss Arlene's arse ( horrible image I may have just planted in your mind...sorry ) and so many English people expressing an opinion that they don't give a fuck about Ulster or Scotland in Arlene's shoes ( size 12's I bet ) I'd be fucking worried that if it would reflect well on Boris in certain demographics he'd give Ulster to Sinn Fein on a silver salver and hang the consequences.
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Just for clarity. I am talking about the elections here in the Republic. Not up North.
It’s hard to envisage what the coalition would be that would put Sinn Fein in government.
I wouldn’t rule anything out though.
People here are sick of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
Just for clarity. I am talking about the elections here in the Republic. Not up North.
It’s hard to envisage what the coalition would be that would put Sinn Fein in government.
I wouldn’t rule anything out though.
People here are sick of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael.
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No I know that but the original question was would Sinn Fein even want to win an election.

My view is that given English attitudes to all parts of the Union and the DUP fading away in importance this is their best chance to agitate and undermine for a United Ireland if they had a Sinn Fein govt. Johnson has already lied about the movement of goods and the border in the Irish Sea showing scant regard for Ulster - put them together and the prize for Sinn Fein could be even greater than being the govt in the Dail
 
bluethrunthru said:
No I know that but the original question was would Sinn Fein even want to win an election.

My view is that given English attitudes to all parts of the Union and the DUP fading away in importance this is their best chance to agitate and undermine for a United Ireland if they had a Sinn Fein govt. Johnson has already lied about the movement of goods and the border in the Irish Sea showing scant regard for Ulster - put them together and the prize for Sinn Fein could be even greater than being the govt in the Dail
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It’s a fair point, she may well feel it’s their time, but as I said it’s hard to imagine a coalition that would include them.
Fair to say Mary Lou will not be the next Taoiseach.
Would she be a junior party leader Tanaiste?

Hard to see in my view.

I’ve never voted for them and purely on an economic basis I would find it difficult still. However I find myself thinking I quite like their social policies and if there was a genuine chance for change then would they be worth a punt.

Then I think again and think I don’t agree with them not taking seats in the British Parliament amongst other things up North. There is a hypocrisy in my view in how they sign up for the GFA but won’t represent their constituents in parliament although I do also see the problem of the oath of allegiance to the Queen being in conflict with their idea of Nationality.

All very complicated but then again their is huge hypocrisy in the republic main parties expecting The DUP to be in Assembly with the Shinners while refusing to entertain a coalition with them down south.

So maybe it is time that changed.

I however am against rushing a border referendum as I don’t think it’s the time for it, so I wouldn’t like to see them accelerate that without knowing what the country would look like afterwards.

Haven’t a scooby who to vote for at the moment.
 
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