Is fascism back with us?

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

Nonetheless, capitalists use fascism as a tool.

Working example - how the Krupps and similar huge industrialists in Germany financed and supported Adolf. Consider the advantages from their POV. Free trade unions were crushed. Left-wingers, particularly Communists, were thrown into concentration camps or terrified into silent compliance. Strong 'law and order' was established. In other words, no one was allowed to protest, let alone strike. With a nice sideline in increased orders for armaments. Wow, it's a catalogue to send any capitalist into rapture.

If they are completely unrelated, how is that fascism rears its vile head at times when capitalism is under extreme stress? Why not in the 1950s and 60s when everything was hunky-dory and most people were contented with what was a rising standard of living and unprecedented prosperity?

As I said the whole purpose of fascism is to direct people's minds to abstracts, not reality. In whose interest is that? These abstracts have a powerful emotional appeal for many people. Not for me, I think they are irrelevant shite. But for many people. That emotion, even hatred, is diverted away from the concrete issues and from the ruling classes. It's a perfect way of persuading me that I have more in common with the Duke of Westminster than with (say) a German worker.

Capitalism is not some neutral, benign, abstract thing that exists outwith humanity. It is directed by greedy humans, many of who will do anything - anything! - to expand their profits. Because, at the level of capitalism I am talking about, (not the local shop or market stall) greed is unlimited. That's why they interfere in politics! That's why they give vast sums to crooked political parties to advance their interests. It's not for the good of humanity.

At root - capitalism relies on greed and the relentless drive for profitability to ruthlessly make decisions in support of capital gain. Left unchecked, capitalism is unworkable. Even Adam Smith, perhaps the biggest proponent for capitalism, recognized that capitalism must be regulated by government.

To equate capitalism with fascism or to argue that capitalism relies on fascism is wrong.

 

[BrianW]

I did not say it relied on fascism - I said it is willing to use fascism as a tool in particular circumstances.

It is quite telling that the USA will not tolerate even moderate democratic socialism in South and Central America, and certainly not Communism, but is quite happy to tolerate and support vile fascist regimes like Pinochet's in Chile. This is because fascism and capitalism are entirely compatible.

The particular brand of corporate capitalism we have now is the greatest threat to freedom the world has ever known. Not least because it is insidious and does not operate publicly, but by secret and indirect means.

I agree that capitalism works best under significant regulation. That regulation is sadly lacking due to corporate influence on governments. Small countries like the UK are far too weak to stand alone against such forces. That is precisely why I support supra-national organisations such as the EU - they have the necessary 'kick'. It is precisely why certain malign elements are working overtime to destroy it.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

I did not say it relied on fascism - I said it is willing to use fascism as a tool in particular circumstances.

It is quite telling that the USA will not tolerate even moderate democratic socialism in South and Central America, and certainly not Communism, but is quite happy to tolerate and support vile fascist regimes like Pinochet's in Chile. This is because fascism and capitalism are entirely compatible.

The particular brand of corporate capitalism we have now is the greatest threat to freedom the world has ever known. Not least because it is insidious and does not operate publicly, but by secret and indirect means.

I agree that capitalism works best under significant regulation. That regulation is sadly lacking due to corporate influence on governments. Small countries like the UK are far too weak to stand alone against such forces. That is precisely why I support supra-national organisations such as the EU - they have the necessary 'kick'. It is precisely why certain malign elements are working overtime to destroy it.

Agree with much of this.

At the same time - regulated competition has historically proven to be the best way to promote a vibrant economy, maximally benefiting society - rewarding success with (regulated) profit.

I'm staunchly in favor of regulated capitalism for this reason. At the same time, I favor many (most?) left-leaning societal goals - including gun control, LGBTQ rights, vaccination, climate change regulation, equitable distribution of wealth - and so on. My support for regulated capitalism is not at all in conflict with the societal goals I advocate.

I am, however, staunchly opposed to complete government overtake and control of corporations and means of production. This is a recipe for disaster.

 

[BrianW]

I agree with you that regulated capitalism is the way to go. I would favour nationalising the natural monopolies, such as water supply and public transport, but not the great bulk of the economy.

The problem is - how to keep the dragon on a chain? For it has become overly powerful and is literally buying national governments and telling them what to do.

My parable is of the river. Kept within its banks, it is beneficial, beautiful and life-giving. When it overflows its banks, it destroys communities and does vast damage. Capitalism is like a river, in that sense.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

I agree with you that regulated capitalism is the way to go. I would favour nationalising the natural monopolies, such as water supply and public transport, but not the great bulk of the economy.

The problem is - how to keep the dragon on a chain? For it has become overly powerful and is literally buying national governments and telling them what to do.

My parable is of the river. Kept within its banks, it is beneficial, beautiful and life-giving. When it overflows its banks, it destroys communities and does vast damage. Capitalism is like a river, in that sense.

Well said.

I'm from the USA - and in many cases, here in America, capitalism has run amok.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

Fascism back with us? - WTF do you think?



Good on Biden.

By the way, though, way the qualified hyphenation? Those fucking MAGA idiots are fascists incarnate - not semi-fascists.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Wow, just realised that it can happen to all of us. BM, really?

 

[bluethrunthru]

Ask Sangita

 

[denislawsbackheel]

The fucking coward cut and ran like a school bully.

 

[Bodicoteblue]

Ask Sangita

This is utterly shameful.
Thankfully sad old people like Anna from Widnes are dying out.
To be fair to her - difficult I know - She is another victim of the fear mongering right wing racists who prey on the weak and stupid and fear of those who see change as an attack on their core values and gave us brexit as the answer.
More to be pitied than scorned.