Is football corrupt?

[CBlue]

Manager communicates the challenge through the 4th official. Bear in mind he only gets to do this twice in 90 mins, so won't use it flippantly. At most 30 seconds after, lets say.

How does the ref know that 30 seconds have elapsed - he doesn't know what the appeal is for? How do you stop the game to conduct the review? Who conducts the review? Who determines which cameras/views the ref can have? Intersting to see how this can work in Europe with, say, a Russian 4th official & a German manager!

-- Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:37 pm --

In many circumstances the challenge would be to a decision already made, so no further break in play than has already occured. The manager is only likely to challenge a decision that has already resulted in a break in play, and in any case the ref can add this time to the match just like he does now via injury time.

That's total nonsense - Mancini would have appealed Yaya's penalty decision in today's game - how would he have done so? You can't change the laws of the game based on "many circumstances", they have to cover "all circumstances".

You seem to be bogged down in detail, whilst not seeing the bigger picture.

Are there lots of duff decisions? Yes.

Does technology exist that if implemented sensibly could help improve the quality of the decisions? Yes.

Should we consider what technologies could be used and how to implement them? Yes.

Your line of "it would be difficult so let's not even think about it" is really not tenable.

This is all BS. You are too pre-occupied with the "WHY" we need VR rather than the "HOW" it would be implemented. Until you can bridge that gap then there is no "big picture". You're just shouting at the moon.

 

[Chippy_boy]

That was always my belief SJK, but it's not a competition in ther true sense of the word, it's a money making excercise. When one of the 'popular' teams wins the competition they have better tv audiences. UEFA changed the rules of the draw so that 2 'popular' teams cannot be on tv the same night. This is acceptable for City & United not playing at home on the same night due to policing reasons, but why should a sporting draw be altered because Barcelona and Real Madrid or Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund attract large tv followings? These teams are paired so that they cannot play on the same night. Why? These teams just happen to be roughly the same distance apart, 380 miles, the same distance as it is from London to Edinburgh and gives no policing issues. Now you tell me that this is not 'fixing' the draw, they have altered it in the face of fair competition. (Dortmund & Schalke are the same distance as Manchester to Bolton & play on the same night).

You'll never find me denying that the Champions League is one big money making exercise. But that doesn't mean it's fixed to ensure specific teams get through and certain others dont. IMO, they want to ensure their matches are getting the biggest TV audiences possible, regardless of whether that should come 2nd to the competition's 'integrity' itself. No, I don't agree with it before you ask, but that's the way it is, and it's been like that for a while.

People would find holes in any format of which FIFA would use. Ironically, the only reason why you were in the Champions League last year is down to the way the current format is, at present. The fact that United, Chelsea & Arsenal have all performed consistently well over the last 8 years or so ensured our co-efficiency was high, thus giving us a 4th qualifying spot.

I didn't hear many people two seasons back complaining about how shit the CL format is because that 4th spot got you a CL place.

The fact that we have 4 CL spots is also probably a big reason why we have so many brilliant, overseas players in the PL today, because there is a wider scope for CL qualification. Had the PL only had 1 CL spot for the last 10 years, you probably wouldn't see the players we have in the PL today nor would you probably not see the players you have at your club today.

There's pro's and cons to every system and every format and unfortunately, money drives everything in the football world.

I imagine Ajax and Dortmund would have feared this group of death more than you did, when it was drawn, but I dont imagine you'll see thread after thread on their forums about how it's rigged/corrupt/bullshit.

That's an excellent post regardless of who you support.

I welcome other supporters coming on here and making good contributions, so I don't want to seem harsh. But in the last paragraph, he completely overlooks the fact that the other non-complaining teams aren't on 2 points when they should be on 4. I wonder how they would react if that was the case? Or are foreigners somehow better able to deal with disappointments than English people? I suspect not.

 

[CBlue]

How does the ref know that 30 seconds have elapsed - he doesn't know what the appeal is for? How do you stop the game to conduct the review? Who conducts the review? Who determines which cameras/views the ref can have? Intersting to see how this can work in Europe with, say, a Russian 4th official & a German manager!

-- Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:37 pm --


That's total nonsense - Mancini would have appealed Yaya's penalty decision in today's game - how would he have done so? You can't change the laws of the game based on "many circumstances", they have to cover "all circumstances".

You seem to be bogged down in detail, whilst not seeing the bigger picture.

Are there lots of duff decisions? Yes.

Does technology exist that if implemented sensibly could help improve the quality of the decisions? Yes.

Should we consider what technologies could be used and how to implement them? Yes.

Your line of "it would be difficult so let's not even think about it" is really not tenable.

Agreed. He's trying to make it far more difficult than it should or would be though.

Simplify it for me then. Away you go - what are you waiting for? Others, more qualified than the pair of us, have given this some thought & have yet to come to a solution. I'm sure they would be delighted to hear that a poster on an internet forum has found the holy grail - especially as it so simple.

 

[Anonymous]

I welcome other supporters coming on here and making good contributions, so I don't want to seem harsh. But in the last paragraph completely overlooks the fact that the other non-complaining teams aren't on 2 points when they should be on 4. I wonder how they would react if that was the case? Or are foreigners somehow better able to deal with disappointments than English people? I suspect not.

I'm sure Dortmund feel they should have two points more than they actually have due to a dubious penalty. Plus his wider point remains spot on. You can't on the one hand complain about a rigged co efficient system or poor officiating when we've a) benefited from poor officiating in our group and b) it's due to the co efficient system that we got into last season's CL ...

Overall I don't believe football is corrupt, and I think it's a shame that the overriding discourse is about this rather than about the weaknesses in our own set up.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I welcome other supporters coming on here and making good contributions, so I don't want to seem harsh. But in the last paragraph completely overlooks the fact that the other non-complaining teams aren't on 2 points when they should be on 4. I wonder how they would react if that was the case? Or are foreigners somehow better able to deal with disappointments than English people? I suspect not.

I'm sure Dortmund feel they should have two points more than they actually have due to a dubious penalty. Plus his wider point remains spot on. You can't on the one hand complain about a rigged co efficient system or poor officiating when we've a) benefited from poor officiating in our group and b) it's due to the co efficient system that we got into last season's CL ...

Overall I don't believe football is corrupt, and I think it's a shame that the overriding discourse is about this rather than about the weaknesses in our own set up.

Fair point about the Dortmund pen.

Regards your other points (a) we were 3rd you numpty. And (b), I don't agree. We all know about the weaknesses in our own set up and we debate them plenty. The question in this thread is about corruption in football and I think yes, it exists.

 

[CBlue]

I welcome other supporters coming on here and making good contributions, so I don't want to seem harsh. But in the last paragraph completely overlooks the fact that the other non-complaining teams aren't on 2 points when they should be on 4. I wonder how they would react if that was the case? Or are foreigners somehow better able to deal with disappointments than English people? I suspect not.

I'm sure Dortmund feel they should have two points more than they actually have due to a dubious penalty. Plus his wider point remains spot on. You can't on the one hand complain about a rigged co efficient system or poor officiating when we've a) benefited from poor officiating in our group and b) it's due to the co efficient system that we got into last season's CL ...

Overall I don't believe football is corrupt, and I think it's a shame that the overriding discourse is about this rather than about the weaknesses in our own set up.

Have you ever considered the possibility that the weaknesses in our own set up is down to corruption?

 

[Latics Fan SJK]

You'll never find me denying that the Champions League is one big money making exercise. But that doesn't mean it's fixed to ensure specific teams get through and certain others dont. IMO, they want to ensure their matches are getting the biggest TV audiences possible, regardless of whether that should come 2nd to the competition's 'integrity' itself. No, I don't agree with it before you ask, but that's the way it is, and it's been like that for a while.

People would find holes in any format of which FIFA would use. Ironically, the only reason why you were in the Champions League last year is down to the way the current format is, at present. The fact that United, Chelsea & Arsenal have all performed consistently well over the last 8 years or so ensured our co-efficiency was high, thus giving us a 4th qualifying spot.

I didn't hear many people two seasons back complaining about how shit the CL format is because that 4th spot got you a CL place.

The fact that we have 4 CL spots is also probably a big reason why we have so many brilliant, overseas players in the PL today, because there is a wider scope for CL qualification. Had the PL only had 1 CL spot for the last 10 years, you probably wouldn't see the players we have in the PL today nor would you probably not see the players you have at your club today.

There's pro's and cons to every system and every format and unfortunately, money drives everything in the football world.

I imagine Ajax and Dortmund would have feared this group of death more than you did, when it was drawn, but I dont imagine you'll see thread after thread on their forums about how it's rigged/corrupt/bullshit.

That's an excellent post regardless of who you support.

I welcome other supporters coming on here and making good contributions, so I don't want to seem harsh. But in the last paragraph, he completely overlooks the fact that the other non-complaining teams aren't on 2 points when they should be on 4. I wonder how they would react if that was the case? Or are foreigners somehow better able to deal with disappointments than English people? I suspect not.

I'd imagine Dortmund weren't very happy at the very harsh penalty that went against them and cost them 2 points at your place a few weeks back, but I bet there wasn't threads like this on their forum then.

If decisions were called correctly so far in this group stage, you'd be on 3pts, not 2 or 4. Regardless, if either of Ajax or Dortmund failed to qualify, I'd hazard a guess that they'd be blaming their own performance rather than the corruption and rigging of the Champions League.

 

[SamirBalotelli]

I welcome other supporters coming on here and making good contributions, so I don't want to seem harsh. But in the last paragraph, he completely overlooks the fact that the other non-complaining teams aren't on 2 points when they should be on 4. I wonder how they would react if that was the case? Or are foreigners somehow better able to deal with disappointments than English people? I suspect not.

Yet you overlook the decision that went in our favour against Borussia Dortmund. You see, what goes around comes around. It's annoying but what can we do?

 

[Latics Fan SJK]

I welcome other supporters coming on here and making good contributions, so I don't want to seem harsh. But in the last paragraph completely overlooks the fact that the other non-complaining teams aren't on 2 points when they should be on 4. I wonder how they would react if that was the case? Or are foreigners somehow better able to deal with disappointments than English people? I suspect not.

I'm sure Dortmund feel they should have two points more than they actually have due to a dubious penalty. Plus his wider point remains spot on. You can't on the one hand complain about a rigged co efficient system or poor officiating when we've a) benefited from poor officiating in our group and b) it's due to the co efficient system that we got into last season's CL ...

Overall I don't believe football is corrupt, and I think it's a shame that the overriding discourse is about this rather than about the weaknesses in our own set up.

Fair point about the Dortmund pen.

Regards your other points (a) we were 3rd you numpty. And (b), I don't agree. We all know about the weaknesses in our own set up and we debate them plenty. The question in this thread is about corruption in football and I think yes, it exists.

No need for the 'numpty' comment, was there?

Yes, you were 3rd, but how can you deny that the reason you qualified for the CL is because of the way the current CL format is in place? That's the only reason.

 

[Anonymous]

I welcome other supporters coming on here and making good contributions, so I don't want to seem harsh. But in the last paragraph completely overlooks the fact that the other non-complaining teams aren't on 2 points when they should be on 4. I wonder how they would react if that was the case? Or are foreigners somehow better able to deal with disappointments than English people? I suspect not.

I'm sure Dortmund feel they should have two points more than they actually have due to a dubious penalty. Plus his wider point remains spot on. You can't on the one hand complain about a rigged co efficient system or poor officiating when we've a) benefited from poor officiating in our group and b) it's due to the co efficient system that we got into last season's CL ...

Overall I don't believe football is corrupt, and I think it's a shame that the overriding discourse is about this rather than about the weaknesses in our own set up.

Have you ever considered the possibility that the weaknesses in our own set up is down to corruption?

No.

We were beaten by Lisbon over two legs last season, by Napoli in the group stages, by Kiev the year before. None of those matches to my mind had any contentious decisions in them. Granted the officiating against Munich was very poor in the first game. Overall though we just haven't been good enough.

For me the major problem in Europe has been a lack of tempo. We keep the ball well enough but our approach play is so slow and so laboured that we become horribly predictable for well organised well drilled sides like Napoli and Ajax. Then we panic whenever the opposition wins possession and ups the tempo again.

No doubt it's a very difficult group that we have this season. However that for me doesn't mitigate the performance in Amsterdam and the first half last night. You can't just play for 45 minutes out of 180 and expect to progress against good teams.