Chippy_boy said:Carver said:Good idea for the lottery machines Chippyboy.
They can make a ball heavier and it is likely to sink to the bottom and get drawn first, but I don't know what difference that would make.
My point is really that the existing system is open to being fixed. If you wanted to have an "unfixable" system, they could very easily introduce one.
Carver said:Chippy_boy said:Carver said:Good idea for the lottery machines Chippyboy.
They can make a ball heavier and it is likely to sink to the bottom and get drawn first, but I don't know what difference that would make.
My point is really that the existing system is open to being fixed. If you wanted to have an "unfixable" system, they could very easily introduce one.
Yes I get your drift pal, in the lottery they have an adjudicator from their independant accounants checking it all off, same happens with Irish lottery. For football we could have someone from a sports arbitration body not connected with football making sure that everything is above board.
sjk2008 said:Ironically, the only reason why you were in the Champions League last year is down to the way the current format is, at present. The fact that United, Chelsea & Arsenal have all performed consistently well over the last 8 years or so ensured our co-efficiency was high, thus giving us a 4th qualifying spot.
I didn't hear many people two seasons back complaining about how shit the CL format is because that 4th spot got you a CL place.
sjk2008 said:Carver said:sjk2008 said:Isn't video technology being introduced in the next year or two?
Can I ask, in what way do you think it is fixed? The draw that is?
I do agree that the draw needs to be revamped though. It should be the Champions, and the Champions only, that play in the competition. I'd could possibly stretch to allowing 2nd place in, just to make the competition bigger. But 3rd n 4th is bollocks.
That was always my belief SJK, but it's not a competition in ther true sense of the word, it's a money making excercise. When one of the 'popular' teams wins the competition they have better tv audiences. UEFA changed the rules of the draw so that 2 'popular' teams cannot be on tv the same night. This is acceptable for City & United not playing at home on the same night due to policing reasons, but why should a sporting draw be altered because Barcelona and Real Madrid or Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund attract large tv followings? These teams are paired so that they cannot play on the same night. Why? These teams just happen to be roughly the same distance apart, 380 miles, the same distance as it is from London to Edinburgh and gives no policing issues. Now you tell me that this is not 'fixing' the draw, they have altered it in the face of fair competition. (Dortmund & Schalke are the same distance as Manchester to Bolton & play on the same night).
You'll never find me denying that the Champions League is one big money making exercise. But that doesn't mean it's fixed to ensure specific teams get through and certain others dont. IMO, they want to ensure their matches are getting the biggest TV audiences possible, regardless of whether that should come 2nd to the competition's 'integrity' itself. No, I don't agree with it before you ask, but that's the way it is, and it's been like that for a while.
People would find holes in any format of which FIFA would use. Ironically, the only reason why you were in the Champions League last year is down to the way the current format is, at present. The fact that United, Chelsea & Arsenal have all performed consistently well over the last 8 years or so ensured our co-efficiency was high, thus giving us a 4th qualifying spot.
I didn't hear many people two seasons back complaining about how shit the CL format is because that 4th spot got you a CL place.
The fact that we have 4 CL spots is also probably a big reason why we have so many brilliant, overseas players in the PL today, because there is a wider scope for CL qualification. Had the PL only had 1 CL spot for the last 10 years, you probably wouldn't see the players we have in the PL today nor would you probably not see the players you have at your club today.
There's pro's and cons to every system and every format and unfortunately, money drives everything in the football world.
I imagine Ajax and Dortmund would have feared this group of death more than you did, when it was drawn, but I dont imagine you'll see thread after thread on their forums about how it's rigged/corrupt/bullshit.
Chippy_boy said:sjk2008 said:Ironically, the only reason why you were in the Champions League last year is down to the way the current format is, at present. The fact that United, Chelsea & Arsenal have all performed consistently well over the last 8 years or so ensured our co-efficiency was high, thus giving us a 4th qualifying spot.
I didn't hear many people two seasons back complaining about how shit the CL format is because that 4th spot got you a CL place.
Who is the "you" you keep referring to? We finished 3rd.
AlthamBlue said:sjk2008 said:Carver said:That was always my belief SJK, but it's not a competition in ther true sense of the word, it's a money making excercise. When one of the 'popular' teams wins the competition they have better tv audiences. UEFA changed the rules of the draw so that 2 'popular' teams cannot be on tv the same night. This is acceptable for City & United not playing at home on the same night due to policing reasons, but why should a sporting draw be altered because Barcelona and Real Madrid or Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund attract large tv followings? These teams are paired so that they cannot play on the same night. Why? These teams just happen to be roughly the same distance apart, 380 miles, the same distance as it is from London to Edinburgh and gives no policing issues. Now you tell me that this is not 'fixing' the draw, they have altered it in the face of fair competition. (Dortmund & Schalke are the same distance as Manchester to Bolton & play on the same night).
You'll never find me denying that the Champions League is one big money making exercise. But that doesn't mean it's fixed to ensure specific teams get through and certain others dont. IMO, they want to ensure their matches are getting the biggest TV audiences possible, regardless of whether that should come 2nd to the competition's 'integrity' itself. No, I don't agree with it before you ask, but that's the way it is, and it's been like that for a while.
People would find holes in any format of which FIFA would use. Ironically, the only reason why you were in the Champions League last year is down to the way the current format is, at present. The fact that United, Chelsea & Arsenal have all performed consistently well over the last 8 years or so ensured our co-efficiency was high, thus giving us a 4th qualifying spot.
I didn't hear many people two seasons back complaining about how shit the CL format is because that 4th spot got you a CL place.
The fact that we have 4 CL spots is also probably a big reason why we have so many brilliant, overseas players in the PL today, because there is a wider scope for CL qualification. Had the PL only had 1 CL spot for the last 10 years, you probably wouldn't see the players we have in the PL today nor would you probably not see the players you have at your club today.
There's pro's and cons to every system and every format and unfortunately, money drives everything in the football world.
I imagine Ajax and Dortmund would have feared this group of death more than you did, when it was drawn, but I dont imagine you'll see thread after thread on their forums about how it's rigged/corrupt/bullshit.
We finished 3rd. Joint 2nd actually!
sjk2008 said:Chippy_boy said:sjk2008 said:Ironically, the only reason why you were in the Champions League last year is down to the way the current format is, at present. The fact that United, Chelsea & Arsenal have all performed consistently well over the last 8 years or so ensured our co-efficiency was high, thus giving us a 4th qualifying spot.
I didn't hear many people two seasons back complaining about how shit the CL format is because that 4th spot got you a CL place.
Who is the "you" you keep referring to? We finished 3rd.
Haha, apologies. 3rd, not 4th (that was Arsenal)!
Still, my point stands I suppose, in that due to English teams performing consistently well over the last 10 years or so, we regularly get a 3rd or 4th CL spot.
As for the 'You' parts of my post, I'm not a City fan mate, I support a shit, lower league team who can't get points from a home game against Fucking Bury.
Chippy_boy said:sjk2008 said:Chippy_boy said:Who is the "you" you keep referring to? We finished 3rd.
Haha, apologies. 3rd, not 4th (that was Arsenal)!
Still, my point stands I suppose, in that due to English teams performing consistently well over the last 10 years or so, we regularly get a 3rd or 4th CL spot.
As for the 'You' parts of my post, I'm not a City fan mate, I support a shit, lower league team who can't get points from a home game against Fucking Bury.
3,000 posts on another teams' forum? That's what confused me. You must be barking mad!
sjk2008 said:Carver said:sjk2008 said:Isn't video technology being introduced in the next year or two?
Can I ask, in what way do you think it is fixed? The draw that is?
I do agree that the draw needs to be revamped though. It should be the Champions, and the Champions only, that play in the competition. I'd could possibly stretch to allowing 2nd place in, just to make the competition bigger. But 3rd n 4th is bollocks.
That was always my belief SJK, but it's not a competition in ther true sense of the word, it's a money making excercise. When one of the 'popular' teams wins the competition they have better tv audiences. UEFA changed the rules of the draw so that 2 'popular' teams cannot be on tv the same night. This is acceptable for City & United not playing at home on the same night due to policing reasons, but why should a sporting draw be altered because Barcelona and Real Madrid or Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund attract large tv followings? These teams are paired so that they cannot play on the same night. Why? These teams just happen to be roughly the same distance apart, 380 miles, the same distance as it is from London to Edinburgh and gives no policing issues. Now you tell me that this is not 'fixing' the draw, they have altered it in the face of fair competition. (Dortmund & Schalke are the same distance as Manchester to Bolton & play on the same night).
You'll never find me denying that the Champions League is one big money making exercise. But that doesn't mean it's fixed to ensure specific teams get through and certain others dont. IMO, they want to ensure their matches are getting the biggest TV audiences possible, regardless of whether that should come 2nd to the competition's 'integrity' itself. No, I don't agree with it before you ask, but that's the way it is, and it's been like that for a while.
People would find holes in any format of which FIFA would use. Ironically, the only reason why you were in the Champions League last year is down to the way the current format is, at present. The fact that United, Chelsea & Arsenal have all performed consistently well over the last 8 years or so ensured our co-efficiency was high, thus giving us a 4th qualifying spot.
I didn't hear many people two seasons back complaining about how shit the CL format is because that 4th spot got you a CL place.
The fact that we have 4 CL spots is also probably a big reason why we have so many brilliant, overseas players in the PL today, because there is a wider scope for CL qualification. Had the PL only had 1 CL spot for the last 10 years, you probably wouldn't see the players we have in the PL today nor would you probably not see the players you have at your club today.
There's pro's and cons to every system and every format and unfortunately, money drives everything in the football world.
I imagine Ajax and Dortmund would have feared this group of death more than you did, when it was drawn, but I dont imagine you'll see thread after thread on their forums about how it's rigged/corrupt/bullshit.