Is Mancini Going Crazy?

[sweep]

No I saw it - just don''t think there is a difference.

The king is here and the warrior lord steps forward, ready, at his side

This one looks the war for the soul of bluemoon. The Final Battle.

Cabal, past and present, I call you into battle. With our pure hearts and minds we will defeat this enemy. The tyranny of oppression has hung over this forum for too long.

Cry freedom, in speech, word and opinion.

Together we march forward. The forum is rightfully ours

Come on then, enlighten us with all the gory details of Mancini's daily interaction with the various players.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Hesitant and faltering opening salvos from the Tubthumpers there, although one senses the big guns are loading their weapons. Johnny Crossan and the Youtube cavalry will make an appearance soon, Billy.

Hold your fire, troops, draw their sting. Send out the battle cry via PM and email.

Truth will prevail...our time is now...

 

[Damocles]

The cavalry has arrived...!

the irony can't be lost on you surely?

It is, it really is. The funny thing about Billy and Dave is that they love to strut around like some intelligentsia but in reality, they really come across uninformed about most of the issues which they like to debate. In reality, they seem to be the "typically English" which the whole country is trying to escape from and that has held back our technical development for years.

I'd be interested to know their experience of football outside of just watching City. Serious question.

I want them to talk about their views on universalism, on tika-taca and the link to Mancini's City, on how the evolution of the 4-4-2 has affected the English game and particularly how its downfall has affected players like AJ and SWP. About where they see the 4-2-3-1 or 4-5-1 going to in the future and where we might need to either sell or pick up players.

I (perhaps wrongly) have Dave pegged as somebody who watches City religiously but isn't particularly a student of the game yet he tries to speak as one. Perhaps that's harsh, he tries to speak as an authority on how to manage players and most of the time uses ad hominem attacks.

You two always whinge about happy clappers and tubthumpers and everything. Here you go, the floor is yours; tell us where City are going wrong without using simplistic, ridiculous cliches like "errr...we are too defensive" or "well, we need to play X in position Y". I'm not asking where we are going wrong in specific events like the "Lets fix this mess" thread (and I even disagree that there is a mess), I'm asking where the philosophy, tactics and training is going wrong.

Then I want you to spend much longer to tell us where we are going right in tactics, philosophy and training. As a team in 3rd place, we have much less going wrong than going right.

As I've mentioned to you two before, the absolute real reason why I get fucking annoyed with you is very little to do with your views on Mancini (we were all friends when you had similar views on Hughes who always had the large crime of being "not Mourinho"); it's that you have gotten that lazy with your views now that you don't even bother to give any semblance of consistency or knowledge in your criticisms, it is all ad hominem attacks or strawman arguments or impossible statements.

By the way Billy, I'll admit that you're much better than Dave for this, and have very little problem with you outside of the talking parrot routine that you have with the Mighty One.

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

Does anyone know how to stop slugs getting in the kitchen ?

 

[Damocles]

Does anyone know how to stop slugs getting in the kitchen ?

Try salt around the door

 

[Blue Theatre]

Surely if there’s one thing we’ve learned from the past 30 years of supporting City, it’s that CHANGING THE MANAGER IS NOT THE SOLUTION ! It just means we take one step forward, then two back.
So Mancini has to stay for at least another couple of seasons, no matter what.

Though it hurts to say it, I think this is one area where we can look to United & Arsenal for an example of how to run a football club.

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

Does anyone know how to stop slugs getting in the kitchen ?

Try salt around the door

Thanks.

 

[johnny crossan]

First he publicly cricises the performance of new man Dzeko, which is hardly going to improve his confidence. Then he claims that 0-0 is a better result than 1-1...WTF? It now means that, if Aris score next week, we will have to score twice and that a 1-1 draw would knock us out. If he genuinely thinks that a 0-0 result is better than 1-1, no wonder we are struggling to win...

Mancini said of Dzeko: “I expect more but I think he needs to improve“.

“We played well, we played football and controlled the game. Aris stayed behind the ball. “It was a fantastic atmosphere,” he added. “Favourites? I think it is open – 0-0 is better than 1-1. We have a chance because we are at home. It will be a different pitch"

Year 6?

 

[johnny crossan]

Hesitant and faltering opening salvos from the Tubthumpers there, although one senses the big guns are loading their weapons. Johnny Crossan and the Youtube cavalry will make an appearance soon, Billy.

Hold your fire, troops, draw their sting. Send out the battle cry via PM and email.

Truth will prevail...our time is now...

Year 5?

 

[Didsbury Dave]

By the way Billy, I'll admit that you're much better than Dave for this, and have very little problem with you outside of the talking parrot routine that you have with the Mighty One.

BOOM!!!!

The king takes his first real shot...

I'll take it Billy, if you don't mind.

Forgive me if I miss anything, Madders, because your was a long post.

My experience of football, first of all. Played the game for my whole life until my 30s. At school level, university level then amateur level. Centre half for most of the time. Spend two summers as a paid football coach abroad when a student. Watched City home and away since the late 70s. Oh, and with regards to people management, I've managed lots of staff for 15 years and do right now as I own a business. Not football management, but not wholly dissimilar, especially sales staff.

I'll bat that one back and ask your experience, if you don't mind.

The gist of your question is where are City going wrong.

First of all, we are a club who has been mismanaged from the top for decades. Our recent history has been chequered by constant envious glances over the road. Now suddenly we have the key to the door. WE have untold riches. So lets start the story back in 2008 when this happened.

MArk Hughes was not a good enough manager for a club with a pot of gold. He started with a 4-3-3, with Ireland as playmaker, and went to 4-4-2 in his second season to incorporate Carlos Tevez. His signings were overpriced but he got more right than wrong. But he was ridid in his thinking, he didn't make changes on the fly and he was too arrogant. His man to man marking didn't work and he was unable to prevent us leaking goals. He should have been sacked i the close season of 08=09 ut the Sheikh was too loyal. He got it wrong.

Mancini came forward 14 months ago. He was third choice of the board but promised behind the scenes that he would prove himself in 6 months and get us in the CL. He immediately went zonal and shored us up well. But the players didn't like him and didn't like his new tactics. He varied systems but the gist was always two holding midfielders playing deep. He wasn't afraid to change systems mid-game back then and did it regularly. But it took him a while to get to know his players and he made a number of mistakes: some bizarre substitutions (IReland off for Etuhu on 70 mins at 0-0 v Lierpool springs to mind), Bellamy's form dipped as we stopped breaking quick - which is what Bellamy needs. Ade found himself increasingly recieving the ball with his back to goal -s omething which he is not good at.

5th was a disappointment as were the cup exits. We were too "Italian" in the biggest games of the season and it cost us dear. Utd stretched us and got behind us. When we attacked them they rocked but we didn't do it enough.

This season there were reasons for optimism. After experimenting pres-season we went with 4-2-3-1 which we've stuck with all season. With this formation we can hold teams or go at them, depending on the midfield. We looked solid at the back from the off but we all felt we would be stronger when Kolorv and Boateng were fit. This proved not to be the case and we still don't know our best back 4. Kompany is a dead cert, but his aprtner sould be either LEscott if we are facing an aeriel battle or Kolo if facing it on the ground. Kolorov is looking like a poor signing and Boaateng looks a centre half which give us a big formation problem:

To play without width, in the 4-2-3-1, or the diamond midfield formation, both of which are the best ones for Silva and Tevez, as "hole players", you need attacking fullbacks. We havent' got them.

Which brings me to the bigger problem. Our matchwinners are AJ who is injured, Silva and Tevez. The need the same space to play in. But Yaya is oocupying that space as the attacking midfielder. He's a square peg ina round hole there.

Of course we could go 4-4-2. But the reason it is out of fashion, in favour of the 4-2-3-1, is that teams, and City, want to dominate the midfield. So we're stuck between a rock and a hard place. We want to dominate the midfield, and that means we dominate posession, but our lack of overlapping fullbacks and width means all our play is concerntrated through the middle. The slow, passing, Italian approach allows teams to defend deep and frustrate us. It is easier to break fdown these teams by getting behind them rather than through them, There is an imbalance in our squad, especially with AJ injured, which means this is hard for us.

I could go on all day but on balance we have a great squad of players who are not being played to the best of their ability in a system and style they don't really believe in. I think the pace of change at City means we need a leader of men to inspire these players, to make them believe the vision and to instil the "winning mentality".

There are some positives and some progression, but it's stalling and I believe there will be great concerns at board level at the way this season is moving. To not qualify for CL would be a disaster. I think the target for Mancini is higher than this.

I tell you what, I'll go one step further. I don't hink he'll be at City next season. I don't think he's got to grips with English football, I don't think he inspires the dressing room and I think he's a detirmined tactician with a questionable back room staff and not enough "X FActor" to take this team to glory.

Your turn now, dont forget to start with your credentials. And please expand on your comments yesterday about SWP playing on the left ;-)