Is Mancini wasting his time with us?

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i wrote this a couple of weeks ago when the Mancini out calls were at their loudest. It is a long post about the merits of Mancini and Mourinho, but please bear with me:

There has been a lot of talk about changing managers, as it seems many people are dissatisfied with Mancini’s tactics. Cue, the familiar calls for the manager roundabout! This inevitably has lead to many people drooling over the prospect of the self-appointed Special One (or as Ancelotti satirically referred to him “His Speciality”) becoming our next manager in the summer. Now, I have nothing against Mourinho and I actually really like the guy, but I still think that if Mancini gets us 4th spot he should stay.

As I have stated in previous posts, Mancini has shown that he is a winner, and has an illustrious track record of building teams (his success at Fiorentina, Lazio and Inter are testament to that). Most people on Bluemoon seem to see Mourinho as the ultimate figure in world football so let me use his own words to make a couple of points:

Firstly, according to Mourinho it takes 3 months to get a team to play how you want them to, Mancini has barely been here 10 weeks and already so many people have turned on him. What is even more ironic is that they seems to be the same people who wanted Mark Hughes (of 18 months and 200m fame) to be given more time and were shocked/dismayed/(insert any other over the top emotion) that Sheikh Mansour expected better. While I understand that many people may have been misled by the biased press and there anti-city/anti-foreign (unless it is Mourinho or Capello) campaign, let us have some consistency. It has been stated by the City hierarchy that as Hughes spent more money than was envisaged by either him or Sheikh Mansour at the start of the summer that the target was mutually raised from top 6 to 70 points (or top 4), all this talk of changing targets half way through the season is just plain wrong. A lot of people are perplexed by the fact that Hughes was given nigh on 200m to spend on HIS players yet Mancini has yet to be afforded the same luxury. What I think happened was that Khaldoon Al-Mubarak was (wrongly) persuaded, perhaps by Hughes himself, that he was the right man to bring success to the club and all he needed was more time and the green light to buy the players HE wanted (remember all that talk by Cook about Hughes having to learn to live without buying his comfort blanket signings like Santa Cruz, yet lo and behold, Crocky is a City player). Clearly, after 18 months they realised that he was not the right man for the job and rather than blow another 200m and hope things will work out (the ‘throw enough money at the problem and it will sort itself out’ approach), they have, correctly, decided to make sure they have the right manager in place before setting off on another spending spree; it was a case of “fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me!” Anyone, who thinks Mourinho can just walk into City and make us a winning team overnight is deluding themselves, when it has come straight from the horses mouth that is takes at least 3 months just to get the team to understand how you want them to play, never mind integrating new signings and turning the team into Title contenders. You also have to realise that at both Chelsea and Inter Mourinho inherited very good squads, and in the case of the latter Mancini has already built him a title winning team which all he had to do was maintain. The only place where Mourinho had to actually build his team was at Porto, where he finished 3rd in his first season before winning back to back titles. If people think that the Italian league is poor, I wonder what they think of the Portuguese League! Herein, lies my second point….

Secondly, many on this forum have just discarded Mancini’s success in Italy, and seem to believe there all-conquering feats on Championship Manager are much more impressive! Well, I think most managers will tell you it is pretty tough to manage in Italy, let alone manage one of the best teams and become there most successful manager for the past 30 years! For all you Mourinho lovers, click the link below where he compares the Seria A to the Premiership:


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXy5QbyqW8I&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]


Merits of Mourinho
I know a lot of people believe Mourinho is invincible but whether you like it or not he does have his drawbacks. Someone posted a piece from a Porto fan on Mourinho which is an excellent read. It is undeniable that Mourinho is a bona fide winner and there is not a lot wrong with that; I know many City fans crave success however it comes about but we have to start looking longer term and see if Mourinho really is the right choice. He seems to only stay at clubs for 2-3 years at a time and has a destabilising effect on whatever club he leaves. Although he is loved by the fans, Mourinho does seem to alienate many of his former players. I remember when he was at Chelsea Mackele was saying how Mourinho wins for himself and takes the limelight from his players. Closer to home, he did not seem to have a very good relationship with our very own Bridge and Sweep. He seems to be genuinely loved by Terry and Lampard, but that is probably because he gave them so much importance. I get the feeling a lot of his ex-players admire him for what he has achieved but do not share any great affection for him. As much as I like Mourinho he is a media whore and everything becomes about him and not his football (one of the major criticisms they have of him in Italy). If he comes, he will instantly be bigger than City, and all you will have in the press are Clough-esque ‘one-liners’, criticisms of referees, and controversy! Yes, it will be entertaining but, we will become even more of a media circus than we already are (hardly the impression Sheikh Mansour wants the club to display).

In addition, if Mourinho does come, you can pretty much forget about Aguero, Villa, Kaka, Ribery, Ibrahimovic or any other superstar turning up at Eastlands. Mourinho is the boss, and he does not suffer fools gladly, as the Porto fan said, he buys talented players (not big names) who give there all for HIM on the pitch, and has never managed egos (unless he gave them that ego i.e. Terry) very well (alienated Ibra, Balotelli at Inter, Robben, Shevchenko at Chelsea).

Also, it would not take long for many fans to get on his back, as leaving aside his distaste for flair (his ego more than makes up for it), or fireworks on the pitch (his personality creates fireworks off the pitch) he does make some bizarre tactical decisions which would drive many a Bluemoon-er up the wall. At Chelsea, he sometimes stuck Robert Huth upfront and then instructed his team to proceed to launch long balls up to him, a trick he recently repeated with Materazzi at Inter! Therefore, I suggest we think long and hard about the long term effects of Mourinho at City, before demanding a change of manager.

Mancini
Good mangers can adapt to different leagues, Mourinho had no experience in English football before he took over at Chelsea, Hiddink and Capello have adapted to different leagues and Ancelotti is doing a very good job at Chelsea, an Ancelotti which Mancini beat several times while manager of Inter.

I have already stated previously (please see my other posts) where I think our weaknesses are in the team and how it is encouraging that Mancini recognised these straight away and is making good progress with a disjointed squad so I will not bore you with these arguments again. Suffice to say if you want to see what around 200m+ can buy, look no further than our friends in Madrid.

Hughes
Kompany-6m
Toure-14m
Lescott-24m
Bridge-12m
Bellamy-14m
De Jong-17m
Barry-16m
Santa Cruz-17m
Tevez-25.5m
Adebayor-25m

Total= 170.5m (not including the combined 50m signings of Jo and Robinho)

Madrid
Arebola-4m
Kaka-55m
Ronaldo-80m
Benzema-30m
Raul Albiol-13m
Alonso-25.5
Granero-3.5

Total-211m (bearing in mind they twice broke the world Record transfer fee for a player)

Although a similar amount of money was spent and both teams had a complete overhaul of their squads we are miles behind Los Galácticos 2.0 in terms of quality. If you listened to some people on this forum you would think 200m is not a lot of money with people suggesting we blow “a few hundred million more on players”, or feel “who cares the Sheikh in rich.” I am sorry but even to Sheikh Mansour 200m is an awful lot of money (remember he is spending his own money and cannot just dip into Abu Dhabi’s oil reserves when he feels like buying some more players-see one of my earlier posts):

Firstly, nobody knows the true value of Sheikh Mansour's wealth (as is the case with every other member of the ruling family from any Gulf state). Secondly that figure of $500b+ is a rough estimate of the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority's assets (again nobody knows the true value as they do not release figures). ADIA is Abu Dhabi's main Sovereign Wealth Fund, it is the emirates money, and a lot of emirati's would be pissed off if any of that money was blown on Man City (it would be like our tax money being given to Lazio or some other foreign club)!

Mancini is making do with the players he has, Mourinho, Hiddink, Capello, Guardiola, del Bosque or any other top manager, would not be able to turn what we have into swash-buckling Barca-esque champions. Mancini admittedly has a relatively weak record in Europe (2 QF’s and a last 16) yet he has done enough with his previous clubs (3 Seria A titles, 4 Coppa Italias, 2 Italian Supercups) to convince me that he deserves more time at City. If we do not finish top 4 this season and next year we are not challenging for the title then calls for the ‘Special One’ may justifiably grow louder but for now I suggest we stick with the One Baciato dalla grazia*!

*’kissed by good fortune’
 
Hughes was sacked after 19 games with 29 points, he was not the owners choice, so with it being known 70points was our objective and our next 2 games very winnable they got rid. Mancini given no money in January, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to work out he would only keep his job if we got 70 points and then he would be given money. As for Jose lovers is he better than what we have. I just want a good manager to be given time and i mean time because we are nearly 2 years down the road with our not so new wealth and we are in danger of messing it up. We need to win a cup everything else, if we give a manager time, will follow. Chumps league and europa is all we have to fight for now and if we end up in europa i wont be gutted as much as was with both cup exits as we would have a far better chance of progressing in that than the chumps league, as i said we need to win a trophy.
 
Neville Kneville said:
johnny crossan said:
have you got any evidence of a 6 month break clause in Mancini's current 3 and a half year contract?

The fact that the press consistantly refer to it, seriously undermining Mancini's position & yet no one from the club goes public to deny it, which would take them 5 seconds & which they've always done with such things in the recent past. Also the fact that Mancini himself has said in the Italian media that City have him on a kind of trial period & has himself to end the speculation whenever asked by our media. His English isn't that bad, he isn't stupid & he has an interpreter yet all he ever says is " Noooo 6 months, then is ok, 3 years yes".

As Field Marshal Montgomery famously said "time spent on reconnaissance is rarely wasted" but I don't think Mancini is here just to test the waters. On January 31st 2010 Sky broadcast an interview with Mancini prior to the Portsmouth match in which he was specifically asked if there was 6 month break clause in his contract.

He said "No"

I know this is inconvenient for you cabbalists but face up to it chaps, the wish is father to the thought when it comes to your fantasizing about Mourinho's summer advent.
 
Best result for over a decade, maybe more, and there are jokers on here calling for Mancini´s head.

You couldn´t make it up. Except with some of the morons on Bluemoon I am not altogether surprised.
 
robbieh said:
Best result for over a decade, maybe more, and there are jokers on here calling for Mancini´s head.

You couldn´t make it up. Except with some of the morons on Bluemoon I am not altogether surprised.

First tubthumper on the thread. What took you so long?
 
Not a fan of chopping and changing managers so quickly, its proven it doesn't work. I was a Hughes inner - Agree with the fact that he couldn't change a game if it wasn't working though.

Lets give Mancini time, he's City's manager right now. Lets just support him eh?
 
johnny crossan said:
Neville Kneville said:
The fact that the press consistantly refer to it, seriously undermining Mancini's position & yet no one from the club goes public to deny it, which would take them 5 seconds & which they've always done with such things in the recent past. Also the fact that Mancini himself has said in the Italian media that City have him on a kind of trial period & has himself to end the speculation whenever asked by our media. His English isn't that bad, he isn't stupid & he has an interpreter yet all he ever says is " Noooo 6 months, then is ok, 3 years yes".

As Field Marshal Montgomery famously said "time spent on reconnaissance is rarely wasted" but I don't think Mancini is here just to test the waters. On January 31st 2010 Sky broadcast an interview with Mancini prior to the Portsmouth match in which he was specifically asked if there was 6 month break clause in his contract.

He said "No"

I know this is inconvenient for you cabbalists but face up to it chaps, the wish is father to the thought when it comes to your fantasizing about Mourinho's summer advent.

I saw the interview and he was very clear on the point although it seems to have barely registered with anyone. I think there is a large degree of wish fulfillment in the Mourinho to City saga and I say that as someone who indulged in this very same wish fulfillment last season only to be disappointed at the end when Jose penned a new deal with Inter.

So fool me once and all that means I ain't buying into the 'Jose to City Part II' saga without some serious reservations. Nor do I buy the fact that anyone on here has any real f**king clue what will happen in the summer especially as I seriously doubt if Mourinho himself knows for definite what his plans will be next season and a lot will no doubt ride on how far he progresses in the CL this year.

As Billy said there are a hell of a lot of variables between now and next season and whilst speculating about it is fun you would have to be monumently stupid to pin your hopes on any of the potential outcomes.

My best guess is that Mancini will be manager next season and Jose will still be at Inter with an outside chance of being manager of Real Madrid.

When predicting the future it usually pays to go with the f**king obvious.
 
If the contract was 6 months plus 3 years then it was all decided before he put pen to paper
 
Didsbury Dave said:
If this happens, there will be a bit of a hullabaloo in the press for a day or two.

However City and Mancini can probably manage that by being relatively honest about Mancini's short term appointment.

If Mourinho came on board, the excitement amongst City fans would be palpable, especially once he started attracting world names. Remember when Keegan came? We all forgot about Joe Royle.

Mancini would be forgotten if he started winning every week.

Storm in a teacup. I think our owners are desperate for Mourinho and would take the short term pain.

Anyway, Mancini hasn't convinced me he will get 4th anyway, so this might all be irrelevant.

Not necessarily. Just as people go on ad infinitum about Hughes who was given quite enough time and money, there will be people who will think Mancini deserved more than 3 months. Me included.

ps Why am I a tubthumper?
 
Tubthumpers - people who cannot tell the difference between rational debate and negativity.

Usually say things like "FFS we're 5th", "so-called supporters" and "fuck off to the swamp".

I can't see that anyone on this thread is calling for Mancini's head, although I didn't bother with the first few pages.

It's a decent debate as to whether Mourinho has always been lined up for the summer.
 
as Given put it 'just like to get on and play footie without all this tactical stuff' but unless we start adopting the way the best teams operate in terms or organisation, focus, concentration and mentality we are just going to be a team of well paid, clueless muppets who on their day can beat anyone but more often then not just cock it up with the media taking the piss.

And of course we all know Mourinho doesn't bother with that tactical stuff does he?

Mancini is walking on egg shells, that much is evident. The six month 'get out clause' means that the tail can effectively wag the dog at least until the end of the season.

I hope we make CL, and the 'special one' can eat shit and die.

*enters bunker*
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
Cheers, mate.

Appreciate your current take on things.

But can tell you there is more chance of Mark Hughes being manager of United one day, than Jose. There was the same concerns aired when Hughes took the City job, him making us successful, finding the swamp too tempting for words.

Jose is a name that the influential old guard, including Bobby Charlton, view with a high degree of caution. Ferguson will remain at the helm for at least another two years.

The contract City would waft under the nose of someone like Mourinho would be nothing less than five years, bettering his current £12m a year salary.

To put this in perspective, two years in, United/Jose would have to cough up circa £50m just to release him.

And I would not be surprised if ADUG said to Jose, here is a ten year contract (especially after two short-term managers under then) to demonstrate their faith to both him and City.

United is a club with no wiggle room, even less money - something even Jose's man-management skills can not counter-act.

He inspires those who want to be great, and the great. If Liverpool had money, they would be a bigger attraction for him this summer than United.

He wants to create a dynasty. To have complete control of everything, with money to burn.

Spain, one day, Portugal national job, one day. Now?

If Real Madrid weren't in the equation, I would be sitting on a small fortune.

Hmmm not sure about a lot of this tolmie, I'll hold you to the 'there is more chance of Mark Hughes being manager of United one day, than Jose' for a start. Whilst there could possibly be reservations at the rags about Jose, Im sure they recognise as much as anyone else that he's one of if not the very best, and that if anyone's gonna replace bacon face then Mourinho is surely the perfect man to do it.

What do you mean by 'no wiggle room'? I'm sure Jose would be able to get a significant amount out of the rags squad as it is

I don't doubt that Liverpool would be a bigger attraction for him than the rags if they had money, but where do you get this 'he wants to create a dynasty' business from? And why would that mean he'd prefer to come to us anyway when he could always create his own dynasty at the rags?
 
800px-Schurz_Conspirators.jpg
 
noise-fingers-in-ears-001.jpg

Someone attempts to tell Johnny Crossan that City may not actually be the best team in the land and all the world
 
TFC said:
If so, I hope the lad at least knows what the score is.

If there is movement afoot to get rid of Bobby after the current campaign, then we should only be looking at the absolute cream of the crop to replace him, Mourinho, Hiddink (looks like a no go), Capello after the WC? (we do have a history with ex England managers...)

Why do soooooo many people regard Hiddink so highly. The guy has done piss-all at club level outside Holland - the not the toughest league around - and has managed to over-achieve in a couple of tournaments with mediocre teams. Hardly a Mourinho or a Capello is he?
 
Didsbury Dave and your ilk.

I do hope you know what you are wishing for.

Firstly my great fear is if having exhausted all other possibilities we hire the man many consider the best manager in the game at present, and it doesn´t work.

I think that will only add to the idea that we are somehow unmanageable.
Thus making City an even more poisoned chalice.

Secondly I have noticed that many of the great teams of Europe do quite well without the services of Jose.

Pelligrini after a poor start has taken Madrid to the top of La Liga. On Bluemoon he would already have been sacked, especially as his track record does not compare with useless managers such as Roberto Mancini. Leonardo, a novice was given the AC job. Guardiola too had no experience.

Bearing in mind that City have won nowt for ages why do some people on here think that only the very best manager (your opinion not mine) in the world is good enough for us?
 

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