aguero93:20
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Morning, might cause a little offence but there's another Ronaldo belongs in tier 4.
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Is Messi Now Officially the Greatest Footballer in History?
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Gray
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Do you mean the one in Tier.3 or the one already in Tier.4?Morning, might cause a little offence but there's another Ronaldo belongs in tier 4.
gordondaviesmoustache
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Was simply responding directly to your point, mate. I think, despite what a previous poster has said, C Ronaldo is entitled to be included in this debate, and the fact his star has now faded (he is 17 months older than Messi) shouldn’t detract from that as much as Pele’s standard when he played for New York Cosmos should be his benchmark. It’s a sign of C Ronaldo’s greatness that he remained so effective well into his 30s.But not as good a player as Pele and unlikely to become a revered worldwide ambassador of football.
However, despite his incredible physical attributes and achievements in the game he’s certainly not the greatest. It can only be Messi really. Pele would certainly make my all time XI, but his talents were never tested at club football outside the Americas, which I’m afraid has to be the case to be considered the greatest imo. He was one hell of a player though, and would ease out C Ronaldo in that XI if I had to choose between the two.
But in terms of the greatest, it’s absolutely Messi in my eyes and was well before he lifted that trophy yesterday. That may have been the coronation in some people’s eyes, but his ascension was many years ago.
Saddleworth2
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He is the greatest and so glad his career has been rewarded by a World Cup win. A World Cup that he lit up.
I am old enough to have watched Pele and I didn’t think anyone would eclipse him but for consistency, longevity and sheer brilliance but Messi has.
Nice to see his best friend Kun share his joy.
I am old enough to have watched Pele and I didn’t think anyone would eclipse him but for consistency, longevity and sheer brilliance but Messi has.
Nice to see his best friend Kun share his joy.
Saddleworth2
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Whilst I agree with your assessment of Messi, I’m not sure i agree with that rationale. Is the Messi era La League really so much better than the Brazilian League of Santos. I really don’t know but Messi played in a hell of a lot of games for Barca where the result was a foregone conclusion.Pele would certainly make my all time XI, but his talents were never tested at club football outside the Americas, which I’m afraid has to be the case to be considered the greatest imo.
gordondaviesmoustache
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I would say yes, absolutely.Whilst I agree with your assessment of Messi, I’m not sure i agree with that rationale. Is the Messi era La League really so much better than the Brazilian League of Santos.
Saddleworth2
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Both players stats are just ridiculous. I am very lucky to have been alive to watch both of them + Colin Bell, David, Kun, Vinnie...
Edson Arantes do Nascimento ; born 23 October 1940), known as Pelé (Portuguese pronunciation: [peˈlɛ]), is a Brazilian former professional footballer who played as a forward. Regarded as one of the greatest players of all time and labelled "the greatest" by FIFA,[1] he was among the most successful and popular sports figures of the 20th century. In 1999, he was named Athlete of the Century by the International Olympic Committee and was included in the Time list of the 100 most important people of the 20th century. In 2000, Pelé was voted World Player of the Century by the International Federation of Football History & Statistics (IFFHS) and was one of the two joint winners of the FIFA Player of the Century. His 1,279 goals in 1,363 games, which includes friendlies, is recognised as a Guinness World Record.[2]
Lionel Andrés Messi; born 24 June 1987), also known as Leo Messi, is an Argentine professional footballer who plays as a forward for Ligue 1 club Paris Saint-Germain and captains the Argentina national team. Widely regarded as one of the greatest players of all time, Messi has won a record seven Ballon d'Or awards,[note 2] a record six European Golden Shoes, and in 2020 was named to the Ballon d'Or Dream Team. Until leaving the club in 2021, he had spent his entire professional career with Barcelona, where he won a club-record 35 trophies, including 10 La Liga, seven Copa del Rey, and four UEFA Champions League titles. With his country, he claimed the 2021 Copa América and 2022 FIFA World Cup titles. A prolific goalscorer and creative playmaker, Messi holds the records for most goals in La Liga (474), most goals in a La Liga and European league season (50), most hat-tricks in La Liga (36) and the UEFA Champions League (8), and most assists in La Liga (192), a La Liga season (21) and the Copa América (17). He also holds the record for most international goals by a South American male (98). Messi has scored over 790 senior career goals (in just over 1000 matches) for club and country, and has the most goals by a player for a single club (672).
Edson Arantes do Nascimento ; born 23 October 1940), known as Pelé (Portuguese pronunciation: [peˈlɛ]), is a Brazilian former professional footballer who played as a forward. Regarded as one of the greatest players of all time and labelled "the greatest" by FIFA,[1] he was among the most successful and popular sports figures of the 20th century. In 1999, he was named Athlete of the Century by the International Olympic Committee and was included in the Time list of the 100 most important people of the 20th century. In 2000, Pelé was voted World Player of the Century by the International Federation of Football History & Statistics (IFFHS) and was one of the two joint winners of the FIFA Player of the Century. His 1,279 goals in 1,363 games, which includes friendlies, is recognised as a Guinness World Record.[2]
Lionel Andrés Messi; born 24 June 1987), also known as Leo Messi, is an Argentine professional footballer who plays as a forward for Ligue 1 club Paris Saint-Germain and captains the Argentina national team. Widely regarded as one of the greatest players of all time, Messi has won a record seven Ballon d'Or awards,[note 2] a record six European Golden Shoes, and in 2020 was named to the Ballon d'Or Dream Team. Until leaving the club in 2021, he had spent his entire professional career with Barcelona, where he won a club-record 35 trophies, including 10 La Liga, seven Copa del Rey, and four UEFA Champions League titles. With his country, he claimed the 2021 Copa América and 2022 FIFA World Cup titles. A prolific goalscorer and creative playmaker, Messi holds the records for most goals in La Liga (474), most goals in a La Liga and European league season (50), most hat-tricks in La Liga (36) and the UEFA Champions League (8), and most assists in La Liga (192), a La Liga season (21) and the Copa América (17). He also holds the record for most international goals by a South American male (98). Messi has scored over 790 senior career goals (in just over 1000 matches) for club and country, and has the most goals by a player for a single club (672).
I wouldn't want to play any of them at Centre-Back - although Pele might have had the attributes to play there. And would any of these be in the debate had they represented Bolivia, or Bhutan or Botswana?
Football is a team game - and so even the greatest of players need good teams around them to showcase talent or to win the trophies that such careers are being judged by. What of course they can do is lift that team beyond everyone else - Maradonna for Argentina in 86, CRonaldo when Portugual won Euro's - and perhaps Messi this time around. And important as other positions are - it's difficult to remember when the best defenders dragged an ordinary team to triumph - although perhaps Cannavero or Buffon did so for Italy in 2006, and of course Greece in 2004 was all about the team.
So everyone mentioned have been great players - players who lift you of your seat and get you excited watching football (or frighten you if they are opposition) - perhaps that is the mark of their greatness and all listed could do that. And after all that - I don't know who I would go for - but I'd also want to add Cruyff into the debate. He was crucial in Ajax winning 3 European Cups in succession, in taking Netherlands from a nation that didn't even qualify for World Cups to World Cup Finalists. He had a lasting influence on the way football is played now and could have probably played Centre Back as well!
Football is a team game - and so even the greatest of players need good teams around them to showcase talent or to win the trophies that such careers are being judged by. What of course they can do is lift that team beyond everyone else - Maradonna for Argentina in 86, CRonaldo when Portugual won Euro's - and perhaps Messi this time around. And important as other positions are - it's difficult to remember when the best defenders dragged an ordinary team to triumph - although perhaps Cannavero or Buffon did so for Italy in 2006, and of course Greece in 2004 was all about the team.
So everyone mentioned have been great players - players who lift you of your seat and get you excited watching football (or frighten you if they are opposition) - perhaps that is the mark of their greatness and all listed could do that. And after all that - I don't know who I would go for - but I'd also want to add Cruyff into the debate. He was crucial in Ajax winning 3 European Cups in succession, in taking Netherlands from a nation that didn't even qualify for World Cups to World Cup Finalists. He had a lasting influence on the way football is played now and could have probably played Centre Back as well!