Is now the time to consider Mancini's tenure at the club

[John.des]

Napoli & Ajax have no or maybe only Cavani as a world class player.

It is absolutely not the number of world class players that will make the success in the CL early rounds or the group stage.

Last year a team from fucking Cyprus called APOEL reached the 1/8 finals.!!!

You know how? They had Cyprian players, one or two uknown Greek players and some good Brazilian players but no one heard about them before. The ones who dont go the La Liga, Italy but end up in Cyprus league.

They got a very strong group Porto, Sahtar, Zenit. All these teams were winning the EL just in the last few years they had a lot of CL expereince too as they are playing CL now for years.

All these teams have a very good squad just look at Zenit, Porto, Sahtar.

Apoel's squad was not comparable to these squads. Like Ajax's 10m pound squad cant be comparable to our squad.

Apoel went on finishing first in the group. In the 1/16 finals they beat French Lyon another hugely CL experienced team. (It was not a problem for Apoel in their first year of CL to beat another experienced teams with goo displays, good defence, good tactics, good workrate.)

In 1/8 finals they lost to Real Madrid.

Dont know who is Apoel's best player but not sure he would get to City's bench.

So telling we are not good at this level because the number of our world class players is a huge joke.

We might be not as good as Real/Barca because of it. That is right.

Unfortunately we arent as good as Sporting, Kijev, Dortmund, Napoli or Ajax either. What is next? We arent as good as Apoel, Dinamo Zagreb, Bate Borisov, Nordsjelland? Only if we buy those 35m players? Otherwise we can forget about it.

It is not about winning this damn CL.
It is about not failing already in the group stages.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

If ADUG wanted a serious CL challenge then they should have given the manager the tools to get the job done (ie. Thiago Silva, Martinez, Hazard). They failed to do this, probably with very good financial reasons, but the likes of Lescott, Barry, Milner, and all the new signings, simply aren't good enough to deliver in Europe. I'm sure Mancini knows this and has been fighting his corner behind the scenes, but for him to carry the can is wrong imo. Give the manager what he wants and then ask questions if he fails to deliver, but don't ignore him then blame him when it goes tits up.

I agree in lots of ways: I don't think our squad is good enough to win the CL. But it is/was good enough to qualify from the group, regardless of our poor summer in the transfer market. We proved last season we are better than Man United and Chelsea, and as the two sides who've won the league in the last 5 years, look how they have done in the CL.

You are underrating our players badly. None of the English teams who've reached the semis and finals over the last few years have had 11 world class players in them.

No they haven't, but by the same token they haven't had Madrid/Dortmund/Ajax/Villarreal/Bayern/Napoli as their group opponents.

To put it into perspective, here are the recent runs to the semis and final for each English Club since Liverpool 05.

Arsenal(2006): Group(Ajax, Thun, Sparta Prague), Real Madrid, Juventus, Villarreal, Barca.
Henry brilliance in the Bernabeu got them through if memory serves me correctly.

Chelsea(2007): Group(Barca, Werder Bremen, Levski), Porto, Valencia, Liverpool.

Liverpool(2007): Group(Bordeaux, PSV & Galatasaray), Barcelona, PSV, Chelsea, AC Milan.

Man Utd(2007): Group(Celtic, Benfica & FC Kobenhavn), Lille, Roma, AC Milan.

Man Utd(2008): Group(Roma, Sporting CP & Dynamo Kyiv), Lyon, Roma, Barcelona, Chelsea.

Chelsea(2008): Group(Schalke, Rosenborg & Valencia), Olympiacos, Fenerbahce, Liverpool, Man Utd.

Liverpool(2008): Group(Porto, Marseille & Besiktas), Inter, Arsenal, Chelsea.

Chelsea(2009): Group(Roma, Bordeaux & Cluj), Juventus, Liverpool, Barcelona.

Arsenal(2009): Group(Porto, Dynamo Kyiv & Fenerbahce), Roma, Villarreal, Man Utd.

Man Utd(2009): Group(Villarreal, Aalborg & Celtic), Inter, Porto, Arsenal, Barcelona.

Man Utd(2011): Group(Valencia, Bursaspor & Rangers), Marseille, Chelsea, Schalke, Barca.

Chelsea(2012): Group(Leverkusen, Valencia & Genk), Napoli, Benfica, Barca & Bayern.

Don't think any of them had a tough group, at least nowhere near as tough as ours, and when you get to the knockout stages you never know do you, United seem to enjoy easy runs to semi-finals and occasionally finals though.

Ah, here we go.

Excuse time.

We've been appalling in Europe since Mancini came. I don't need stats to tell me that.

 

[greasedupdeafguy]

If ADUG wanted a serious CL challenge then they should have given the manager the tools to get the job done (ie. Thiago Silva, Martinez, Hazard). They failed to do this, probably with very good financial reasons, but the likes of Lescott, Barry, Milner, and all the new signings, simply aren't good enough to deliver in Europe. I'm sure Mancini knows this and has been fighting his corner behind the scenes, but for him to carry the can is wrong imo. Give the manager what he wants and then ask questions if he fails to deliver, but don't ignore him then blame him when it goes tits up.

I agree in lots of ways: I don't think our squad is good enough to win the CL. But it is/was good enough to qualify from the group, regardless of our poor summer in the transfer market. We proved last season we are better than Man United and Chelsea, and as the two sides who've won the league in the last 5 years, look how they have done in the CL.

You are underrating our players badly. None of the English teams who've reached the semis and finals over the last few years have had 11 world class players in them.

No they haven't, but by the same token they haven't had Madrid/Dortmund/Ajax/Villarreal/Bayern/Napoli as their group opponents.

To put it into perspective, here are the recent runs to the semis and final for each English Club since Liverpool 05.

Arsenal(2006): Group(Ajax, Thun, Sparta Prague), Real Madrid, Juventus, Villarreal, Barca.
Henry brilliance in the Bernabeu got them through if memory serves me correctly.

Chelsea(2007): Group(Barca, Werder Bremen, Levski), Porto, Valencia, Liverpool.

Liverpool(2007): Group(Bordeaux, PSV & Galatasaray), Barcelona, PSV, Chelsea, AC Milan.

Man Utd(2007): Group(Celtic, Benfica & FC Kobenhavn), Lille, Roma, AC Milan.

Man Utd(2008): Group(Roma, Sporting CP & Dynamo Kyiv), Lyon, Roma, Barcelona, Chelsea.

Chelsea(2008): Group(Schalke, Rosenborg & Valencia), Olympiacos, Fenerbahce, Liverpool, Man Utd.

Liverpool(2008): Group(Porto, Marseille & Besiktas), Inter, Arsenal, Chelsea.

Chelsea(2009): Group(Roma, Bordeaux & Cluj), Juventus, Liverpool, Barcelona.

Arsenal(2009): Group(Porto, Dynamo Kyiv & Fenerbahce), Roma, Villarreal, Man Utd.

Man Utd(2009): Group(Villarreal, Aalborg & Celtic), Inter, Porto, Arsenal, Barcelona.

Man Utd(2011): Group(Valencia, Bursaspor & Rangers), Marseille, Chelsea, Schalke, Barca.

Chelsea(2012): Group(Leverkusen, Valencia & Genk), Napoli, Benfica, Barca & Bayern.

Don't think any of them had a tough group, at least nowhere near as tough as ours, and when you get to the knockout stages you never know do you, United seem to enjoy easy runs to semi-finals and occasionally finals though.

We should be getting through a group with Napoli and Villarreal the latter was relegated from the spanish league and it still took a last minute goal to beat them. Napoli aren't a great side and with squad we have we should have got a least 4 points of them even two would have been enough. Performances have also been very poor in europe getting knocked out by Lisbon and kiev the past few years in the europa and the matched against Dortmund and Ajax were embarrassing.

 

[Damocles]

Roberto Mancini has won at least one trophy in every single full season in his management career.

Any questions?

 

[greasedupdeafguy]

Roberto Mancini has won at least one trophy in every single full season in his management career.

Any questions?

No he hasnt

 

[johnny crossan]

Roberto Mancini has won at least one trophy in every single full season in his management career.

Any questions?

next year?

 

[tiggsywiggsywoo]

I agree and really like Mancini. However I'm concerned that we are in danger of becoming a european joke.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

I agree in lots of ways: I don't think our squad is good enough to win the CL. But it is/was good enough to qualify from the group, regardless of our poor summer in the transfer market. We proved last season we are better than Man United and Chelsea, and as the two sides who've won the league in the last 5 years, look how they have done in the CL.

You are underrating our players badly. None of the English teams who've reached the semis and finals over the last few years have had 11 world class players in them.

No they haven't, but by the same token they haven't had Madrid/Dortmund/Ajax/Villarreal/Bayern/Napoli as their group opponents.

To put it into perspective, here are the recent runs to the semis and final for each English Club since Liverpool 05.

Arsenal(2006): Group(Ajax, Thun, Sparta Prague), Real Madrid, Juventus, Villarreal, Barca.
Henry brilliance in the Bernabeu got them through if memory serves me correctly.

Chelsea(2007): Group(Barca, Werder Bremen, Levski), Porto, Valencia, Liverpool.

Liverpool(2007): Group(Bordeaux, PSV & Galatasaray), Barcelona, PSV, Chelsea, AC Milan.

Man Utd(2007): Group(Celtic, Benfica & FC Kobenhavn), Lille, Roma, AC Milan.

Man Utd(2008): Group(Roma, Sporting CP & Dynamo Kyiv), Lyon, Roma, Barcelona, Chelsea.

Chelsea(2008): Group(Schalke, Rosenborg & Valencia), Olympiacos, Fenerbahce, Liverpool, Man Utd.

Liverpool(2008): Group(Porto, Marseille & Besiktas), Inter, Arsenal, Chelsea.

Chelsea(2009): Group(Roma, Bordeaux & Cluj), Juventus, Liverpool, Barcelona.

Arsenal(2009): Group(Porto, Dynamo Kyiv & Fenerbahce), Roma, Villarreal, Man Utd.

Man Utd(2009): Group(Villarreal, Aalborg & Celtic), Inter, Porto, Arsenal, Barcelona.

Man Utd(2011): Group(Valencia, Bursaspor & Rangers), Marseille, Chelsea, Schalke, Barca.

Chelsea(2012): Group(Leverkusen, Valencia & Genk), Napoli, Benfica, Barca & Bayern.

Don't think any of them had a tough group, at least nowhere near as tough as ours, and when you get to the knockout stages you never know do you, United seem to enjoy easy runs to semi-finals and occasionally finals though.

Ah, here we go.

Excuse time.

We've been appalling in Europe since Mancini came. I don't need stats to tell me that.

Think he'd do a better job if he was bought who he felt we needed in the summer.

That being said we have underperformed, but it's no surprise with the hardest group 2 seasons running, a hell of a lot more pressure as a result and those English players you talked about who have been in the CL only last season and have never got out of a group, never been to Napoli, Bayern, Ajax or the Bernabeu and with a manager who is having to hodge podge a team together because the board gave him a big contract and then decided they didn't want to back him.

We've underperformed and there's a lot more to it than just Mancini cocking up, which he has.

 

[Cobwebcat]

I agree in lots of ways: I don't think our squad is good enough to win the CL. But it is/was good enough to qualify from the group, regardless of our poor summer in the transfer market. We proved last season we are better than Man United and Chelsea, and as the two sides who've won the league in the last 5 years, look how they have done in the CL.

You are underrating our players badly. None of the English teams who've reached the semis and finals over the last few years have had 11 world class players in them.

No they haven't, but by the same token they haven't had Madrid/Dortmund/Ajax/Villarreal/Bayern/Napoli as their group opponents.

To put it into perspective, here are the recent runs to the semis and final for each English Club since Liverpool 05.

Arsenal(2006): Group(Ajax, Thun, Sparta Prague), Real Madrid, Juventus, Villarreal, Barca.
Henry brilliance in the Bernabeu got them through if memory serves me correctly.

Chelsea(2007): Group(Barca, Werder Bremen, Levski), Porto, Valencia, Liverpool.

Liverpool(2007): Group(Bordeaux, PSV & Galatasaray), Barcelona, PSV, Chelsea, AC Milan.

Man Utd(2007): Group(Celtic, Benfica & FC Kobenhavn), Lille, Roma, AC Milan.

Man Utd(2008): Group(Roma, Sporting CP & Dynamo Kyiv), Lyon, Roma, Barcelona, Chelsea.

Chelsea(2008): Group(Schalke, Rosenborg & Valencia), Olympiacos, Fenerbahce, Liverpool, Man Utd.

Liverpool(2008): Group(Porto, Marseille & Besiktas), Inter, Arsenal, Chelsea.

Chelsea(2009): Group(Roma, Bordeaux & Cluj), Juventus, Liverpool, Barcelona.

Arsenal(2009): Group(Porto, Dynamo Kyiv & Fenerbahce), Roma, Villarreal, Man Utd.

Man Utd(2009): Group(Villarreal, Aalborg & Celtic), Inter, Porto, Arsenal, Barcelona.

Man Utd(2011): Group(Valencia, Bursaspor & Rangers), Marseille, Chelsea, Schalke, Barca.

Chelsea(2012): Group(Leverkusen, Valencia & Genk), Napoli, Benfica, Barca & Bayern.

Don't think any of them had a tough group, at least nowhere near as tough as ours, and when you get to the knockout stages you never know do you, United seem to enjoy easy runs to semi-finals and occasionally finals though.

Ah, here we go.

Excuse time.

We've been appalling in Europe since Mancini came. I don't need stats to tell me that.

You so do. As a matter of interest did you think Mancini was a good appointment and did you think he would win the Premiership so quickly? Could yo be wrong (again?)

 

[Damocles]

Roberto Mancini has won at least one trophy in every single full season in his management career.

Any questions?

No he hasnt

My mistake.

Roberto Mancini has won at least one trophy in every single full season in his management career except his first full season.

00-01 = Not a full season. Still won a cup.
01-02 = Not a full season.
02-03 = His first full season. Lazio sold Nesta, Crespo and Mendieta from under him. Didn't win a cup.
03-04 = Full season. Won a cup. (Italian FA Cup)
04-05 = Full season. Won a cup. (Italian FA Cup)
05-06 = Full season. Won a cup. (League/Italian FA Cup)
06-07 = Full season. Won a cup. (League)
07-08 = Full season. Won a cup. (League)
08-09 = Not employed.
09-10 = Came in halfway through.
10-11 = Full season. Won a cup. (FA Cup)
11-12 = Full season. Won a cup. (Prem League)